Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[lead82]

Torontonians should learn how to walk 500m. The spacing between Bathurst and Chaplin is only about 1KM. It is not that far a walk between the two stations. Yes there is a hill, but this is nothing for most able bodied people. The elderly/ frail would have to rely on an accessible bus service. The absolute minimum spacing for this somewhat dense stretch of Eglinton should be around 1km. This is planned to be built with some cross town loads so it is desirable to have
faster through service.

 

[leopetr]

Torontonians should learn how to walk 500m. ... The elderly/ frail would have to rely on an accessible bus service.

Are you advocating for parallel bus service to the Eglinton LRT subway from day 1?

 

[jwill]

Its only a 500m walk if you are already at Chaplin/Eglinton. If you live a few blocks north or south it becomes a longer walk. As for local knowledge, there's also an arena a block away, bus routes on both Spadina and Chaplin, and the belt line trail which leads to a lot of the apartments just east of Bathurst.

Besides, Bloor-Danforth handles crosstown traffic while still serving neighbourhoods along the route, so why can't Eglinton? Between Yonge and Dufferin there are 8 B-D stops, and 7 proposed for Eglinton (without cutting Chaplin or Oakwood).

 

[Asterix]

This is planned to be built with some cross town loads so it is desirable to have
faster through service.

What cross town loads do you think there will be?

(ie what percentage of the passengers will not be going to or coming from the Yonge or University subway stations?)

How much time do you think having to service Chaplin station will add to this hypothetical cross town trip?

 

[lead82]

I am not advocating for the removal of Chaplin. Cross-town traffic will depend on how far the route is and how fast west (yyz) and east it goes (SCC). As for the accessibility issue, I was referring to Wheel-trans for those who find it hard to climb the hills.

 

[Asterix]

I am not advocating for the removal of Chaplin. Cross-town traffic will depend on how far the route is and how fast west (yyz) and east it goes (SCC). As for the accessibility issue, I was referring to Wheel-trans for those who find it hard to climb the hills.

Is there really any documented demand for travel on transit from SCC to YYZ? Are there really that many people currently making that trip by car (or on existing TTC infrastructure) who would love to be able to do that route by LRT/subway/whatever Ford Nation/Metrolinx decide?

With respect to Wheel Trans, I believe the recent TTC budget indicated that cost per ride for those taking contracted taxis was on the order of $30. Cost per ride in a Wheel Trans bus was on the order of $50.

Wheel Trans rides need to be booked at least a day in advance and give you a 30 minute window within which to expect your ride.

One of the reasons for the political push to make the regular TTC more accessible (low floor buses, escalators, elevators, etc) is that they don't want to be pushing people who just have trouble with hills off the regular TTC and on to Wheel Trans.

 

[Molybdenum]

I am not advocating for the removal of Chaplin. Cross-town traffic will depend on how far the route is and how fast west (yyz) and east it goes (SCC). As for the accessibility issue, I was referring to Wheel-trans for those who find it hard to climb the hills.

It's not a good idea to start pushing more people towards Wheel Trans by making the distances between these new stations so far that they effectively become inaccessible for many people, especially given the growing amount of seniors and those with mobility issues. The main reason: Wheel Trans is incredibly expensive for the City to provide, as each one way trip on Wheel Trans costs the TTC over $30 in subsidies. There's also all of the other issues, such as the inability for those using Wheel Trans to be able to rely on it for last minute trips, since if you call to book a trip and there's no more space available today, you're just out of luck. Once the entire fleet and all of the stations are accessible, the TTC will start to significantly save in ongoing operating costs and subsidies as quite a few more people will be able to use the conventional system, leaving Wheel Trans for those that truly need assisted door-to-door service. These savings will be eaten away if the TTC needs to run a bus service or wheel trans to bridge the gap, like along Sheppard and north of Eglinton on Yonge currently.

 

[lafard]

The belt line isn't plowed and at this time of year when it's thawing is nearly impassable. That hill is very large, about 75 feet vertical straight up then down again, and crests one of the highest points in the City of Toronto. There is much local demand at that point, and the buses on Spadina and Chaplin were targets for the Ford Service Cuts.

It is an urban subway and should be operated with urban subway stop spacing. 3 stops per concession is perfectly reasonable. This is not an instance where we should be building suburban-like stop spacings as the majority of the demand is indeed relatively local in nature.

The net inconvenience to crosstown riders (who probably number a few hundred a day) pales in comparison to even the number of high school students that wll use that one station in the 45 minutes after school lets out. Chaplin needs to be there.

Oakwood, too. Being skipped by transit would be a nail in the coffin for an already struggling area. Why spend 6 billion dollars if you're just going to bypass your users?

If we want fast crosstown service there should be express GO service, possibly on the North Toronto rail line. Crosstown rides should not be brought about at the cost of local users. Subway is not regional rail even if it's used as such in Toronto.

This is one reason why Transit Planning in Toronto is so flawed. We keep hijacking what should be local services into regional services. This hijacking is exactly why the LRTs were doomed; instead of providing moderately improved local service or midrange commutes, we instead decide to build lines for the 10% of ridership that is going more than 8km on that line usually to the detriment of those that are travelling locally. This is exactly what happened to the Sheppard LRT. The subway plan provides a rapid connection between STC and Downsview but makes travel on Sheppard itself much less convenient unless you live right beside a station. It's the 500 passengers a day that ride Downsview to STC that the line is built for, not the 60,000 a day that are travelling shorter distances on the line itself or to change to another line elsewhere.

 

[sixrings]

How far is the stop spacing of Subways in New York? I swear the stops are equal if not farther then what is being proposed here. People just walk farther... But I could be wrong. And BTW Im thinking New York is a walkable pedestrian environment.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

How far is the stop spacing of Subways in New York? I swear the stops are equal if not farther then what is being proposed here. People just walk farther... But I could be wrong. And BTW Im thinking New York is a walkable pedestrian environment.

Stop spacing in New York is typically around half a mile (800m), often shorter but rarely longer.

In Toronto terms, New York style spacing would be to have 2 stops in between concession roads rather than 1 or 0.

 

[sixrings]

800M spacing in manhatten or in all of New York including brooklyn, queens, bronx? If you got rid of chaplain and oakwood what would the stop spacing be?

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

No pretty much in all of New York. If anything the stations in Manhattan are often closer.

The spacing between Bathurst and Avenue without Chaplin would be around 1400m. The spacing between Eglinton West and Dufferin without Oakwood would be around 1200m. Removing Chaplin would be especially bad since it's at the bottom of two hills, but the spacing would be too wide if either of them were removed.

 

[Dan416]

I think matching Bloor-Danforth spacing is ideal. Closer in the middle, and further apart on the ends. I'd keep Chaplin and Oakwood, but remove the ones I mentioned earlier (e.g. in between Kipling and Islington, in between Royal York and Islington, etc.)

 

[nfitz]

Stop spacing in New York is typically around half a mile (800m), often shorter but rarely longer.

That doesn't sound like the Manhattan I know ... stops seem a lot closer than 800 metres to me in many places. Though their platforms can be almost twice as long as ours reaching 200 metres long. So if the centre of the platform to the next platform was 800 metres, the end of the platform to the next platform would only be 600 metres. It's not unusal for New York stations to have exits over a 2 block length - or longer.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

That doesn't sound like the Manhattan I know ... stops seem a lot closer than 800 metres to me in many places. Though their platforms can be almost twice as long as ours reaching 200 metres long. So if the centre of the platform to the next platform was 800 metres, the end of the platform to the next platform would only be 600 metres. It's not unusal for New York stations to have exits over a 2 block length - or longer.

Yeah thinking about it more, 800m was a actually pretty conservative estimate. There are a lot of stops that far apart on the system but there also a fair number that are closer to 700m or 600m, and not just in Manhattan. And of course below 59th Street it gets even closer than that.