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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

alexb said:
Then what are you referencing in the Eglinton Crosstown thread? One of the key aspects of P3's IS fixed price and schedule WITH disincentives to being delayed.
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fixed price works when the contractor is competent and the price of the contract is reasonable. As i mentioned subsequently I heavily suspect that crosslinx undercut their bid price just to get in hoping theyd
be able to value engineer their way through, but the pandemic, unforeseen challenges and their overall incompetence as a whole (including ML) quickly ate up that budget and more. Not to mention bad project management from all parties are to blame.

Its counterintuitive to public works thinking but the lowest bidder is usually NOT the best person for the job.
 
alexb said:
Then what are you referencing in the Eglinton Crosstown thread? One of the key aspects of P3's IS fixed price and schedule WITH disincentives to being delayed.
Click to expand...

Fixed Price, whether in a P3 or otherwise, is an illusion. It’s fiction.

Every construction contract will have a claims process. Every contract will have escape clauses for certain scenarios or unforeseens. Some risks rest with the contractor, but not all of them.

Imagine what would happen if the contractor had encountered unforeseens that removed all further incentive to do the work.

If anyone hasn’t noticed, Ml has already agreed to some substantial variances where the Crosstown contractor has shown legitimate grounds for same. There are undoubtedly further claims pending, with potential for legal action.

That is why everyone is being so tight-lipped….. anything that is said may be used, or disputed, in court.

Again - the Crosstown project is NOT fully fixed price.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Fixed Price, whether in a P3 or otherwise, is an illusion. It’s fiction.

Every construction contract will have a claims process. Every contract will have escape clauses for certain scenarios or unforeseens. Some risks rest with the contractor, but not all of them.

Imagine what would happen if the contractor had encountered unforeseens that removed all further incentive to do the work.

If anyone hasn’t noticed, Ml has already agreed to some substantial variances where the Crosstown contractor has shown legitimate grounds for same. There are undoubtedly further claims pending, with potential for legal action.

That is why everyone is being so tight-lipped….. anything that is said may be used, or disputed, in court.

Again - the Crosstown project is NOT fully fixed price.

- Paul
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Of course no contract is fully fixed price, or they'd bid with an outrageous premium for any issues. There are also issues Crosslinx could not have foreseen and other contractors (ie. for utility relocation) that is outside their control. I think there's blame on both sides, and unfortunately, we'll never really know since they'll probably confidentially settle all the claims anyways.
 
Regard the issue of the tracks. My guess is that this is one of those cases of improper understanding of the differences between railroad trackage and LRT trackage and the issue of adapting European wheel profiles to North American tracks.

https://nacto.org/wp-content/upload...es-for-Light-Rail-Circulator-Systems_2007.pdf

When choosing a track designer, it is of great importance that the one chosen has demonstrable knowledge of streetcar track and successful design experience. Many track designers have primarily a railroad background, which by itself is not qualification for design of Light Rail Circulator System track with small radius curves and possibly complex and compact shop and yard layout.
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In general, the grooved rail sections that are available from Europe come in two varieties – those with flangeways that are too small for North American railroad wheel flange profiles and those with flangeways that are too large to satisfy guidelines of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) for walking surfaces. Use of these European rails will usually require adoption of a European type of flange profile as is currently in use on a US transit system and illustrated in Figure 7. Grooved rails are sometimes made of softer steel than common T-rails. This is because the more complex shape of the grooved rail requires more passes through the rolls compared to T-rail. The temperature of the nascent rail is reduced with each pass and if the rail steel chemistry isn’t soft enough, it may not be possible to make the last few passes without fracturing the rail. Some European suppliers can provide surface weldments to increase the durability of grooved rails, but results have been mixed. One manufacturer had just recently begun offering a heat treatment process for grooved rails, but the product has not been on the market long enough to be considered proven. Most North American LRT projects have used T-rail for paved track installations, usually because railroad flange profiles were adopted. Methods for providing the requisite flangeway have varied, as have results. Similarly, methods and results for providing a guard rail in curves have varied by project. One method consists of a vertically mounted restraining rail that is bolted to the running rail every two to three feet. A few projects have used a special rolled shape – strap guard – that mates with common 115RE T-rail and provides a flangeway that mimics that once provided by North American girder guard rails as is shown in Figure 5. Guideline – If grooved rail is used, then a wheel flange profile optimized for the girder guard rail should be adopted. Both the gauge and guard side flange angles from vertical and the tip radii on both the running rail and guard side of the flange should be analyzed for use on curve radii below 15 meters (49 feet) and adjusted for perfect compatibility if found necessary. Alternatively, a flange profile in use on a European property with curve radii equal to that to be used on the Light Rail Circulator System can be adopted. The flange should include the typical flat tip that works best with flange-bearing frogs, crossings, and switch point mates. (See Figure 7.) Such flanges are used at speeds of up to 100 km/h (62 mph) in Europe, so pose no constraints on system expansion. If grooved rail is used, attention should be given to its carbon content to ensure procurement of rail that is no softer than is necessary. 5.3 Use of Bolted Connections Light Rail Circulator System track embedded in concrete is not very maintenance-friendly.
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Assuming that this also applies to straight trackage.
 
yrt+viva=1system said:
Regard the issue of the tracks. My guess is that this is one of those cases of improper understanding of the differences between railroad trackage and LRT trackage and the issue of adapting European wheel profiles to North American tracks.

https://nacto.org/wp-content/upload...es-for-Light-Rail-Circulator-Systems_2007.pdf





Assuming that this also applies to straight trackage.
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We need to know if it was not outlined in the specifications for building or if the builder didn't built it to the required specification.
 
Bordercollie said:
The minister said that this will put them 2 months behind. If it was the whole thing, it would be two more years. So it might be a small section.
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If it's actually 2 months work then it's just an intersection. MAYBE 2 weeks of actual work and the rest twiddling their thumbs. look at the viva repairs on hwy 7,.. sitting literally dormant half complete foe 2 months like they just forgot about it
 
cplchanb said:
If it's actually 2 months work then it's just an intersection. MAYBE 2 weeks of actual work and the rest twiddling their thumbs. look at the viva repairs on hwy 7,.. sitting literally dormant half complete foe 2 months like they just forgot about it
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Actually re highway 7, the second crew was pouring concrete about a week ago.

But yes it was staggered for about a month.
 
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