Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[crs1026]

@TransitBart's to-do list is great, but items 1-5 were equally true at the time of the last election but Wynne got reelected anyways. A crappy Liberal party is assumed by all. I see absolutely no signs of the current PC party embracing a centrist, balanced, Davis style platform. They are likely smart enough to be graceful as opposed to angry, but they will emphasise tightfistedness and departure from the Wynne agenda.

I take some comfort that the GTA media has been climbing the learning curve with respect to transit matters. One doesn't have to agree with everything written but I give the media passing grades for learning to look past the crap and demandsome rigour and fact to support proposals. John Tory has been especially helpful in giving them pause in this respect.

The trouble with politicians seizing on a government entity as being "fat, bloated, unresponsive" is that they pick dramatic and not necessarily constructive paths to impose corrective action. Metrolinx is a prime target for the PC's to harp on - because they are fat, bloated, and unresponsive - but any wholescale restructuring will only happen at the risk of taking one's eye off the ball. What ML needs is transparency and someone to tame their inner redundancy and silo building. The work the TTC has been doing with KPMG around project management is an example of an organization coming to grips with its inner beast in a positive way. My fear is that ML becomes the next Ornge - too easy a target for the PC's to leave alone - so ML endures a period of public whipping and projects get stalled until new "controls" are in place.

Anyways, to return to topic - I agree, Crosstown extensions are something that Wynne has said the City must pay for....and I don't see the PC's changing that reality.

- Paul

 

[WislaHD]

Everything else for me is up in the air. Suburban LRT projects outside of Toronto are probably dead.

Hamilton is probably dead in PC-victory. London's will be fine as it is largely funded by the city.

The real question-mark is Hurontario, but I just don't see cancelling Hurontario without losing Mississauga's votes.

 

[rbt]

They may not know above it now, but they won't like it when the headline comes around saying "Brown to cancel largest GO expansion in Ontario history"

How about Brown to optimize spending on GOs most expensive expansion in Ontario history?

Nothing in RER is getting cancelled; most parts are just going to be rescheduled. He may even use an even bigger expansion (RER on all lines including Milton and friends) as a stalling tactic to send it back to research/EA stages for 4 years (up to the government following his to actually fund construction).

 

[Palma]

Brown has been a stanch conservative forever. His fundamental political views aren't going to change over an election cycle. However he might compromise if he believe it'll win him an election

Well he sure compromised on tolls just to get the vote outside toronto

 

[Tuscani01]

You're probably right. 95% of the population doesn't even know how RER is going to change the way of transportation in GTA. Cancelling it is no big deal to them.

This has been my biggest pet peeve with the Wynne government. They have done a lot of good for the Province, but they allow the critics and opposition to rally around small issues to discredit the work the Liberals have done.

Ie. The hydro system was in shambles when the Liberals took over. We had frequent blackouts and threats of rolling brownouts during peak consumption times. Our power plants were constantly being shut down, and we suffered through many smog days. The opposition has gone after hydro prices effectively, while the Liberals remain dead silent on all of the improvements we have seen since they came into power.

Same goes for their stance on tolls/HOT/HOV lanes. The opposition has effectively taken over the discussion by calling them tax-grabs. The Province should be showing how these fees can help commuters in the long run. Explain how transformative RER will be, explain how improved transit will result in less commute time for everyone including road users, explain how this amount of investment was never seen under the previous government and that it makes sense that money will need to come from somewhere.

I do hope they eventually realize this and put together a campaign showing Ontarian's just how much better off we are today than we were under the PC's. We've come a long way since then. (Yes, there is still work that needs to be done on some issues like our healthcare system) They need to remind people of how we got to where we are today.

 

[Palma]

Later = never in Ontario. If you want it built, you need to build it asap. Preferably in one election cycle

I was thinking the same thing. The Liberals have 1 1/2 years to start tunnelling for the DRL and build some stations concurrently as they go along

 

[MisterF]

This has been my biggest pet peeve with the Wynne government. They have done a lot of good for the Province, but they allow the critics and opposition to rally around small issues to discredit the work the Liberals have done.

Ie. The hydro system was in shambles when the Liberals took over. We had frequent blackouts and threats of rolling brownouts during peak consumption times. Our power plants were constantly being shut down, and we suffered through many smog days. The opposition has gone after hydro prices effectively, while the Liberals remain dead silent on all of the improvements we have seen since they came into power.

Same goes for their stance on tolls/HOT/HOV lanes. The opposition has effectively taken over the discussion by calling them tax-grabs. The Province should be showing how these fees can help commuters in the long run. Explain how transformative RER will be, explain how improved transit will result in less commute time for everyone including road users, explain how this amount of investment was never seen under the previous government and that it makes sense that money will need to come from somewhere.

I do hope they eventually realize this and put together a campaign showing Ontarian's just how much better off we are today than we were under the PC's. We've come a long way since then. (Yes, there is still work that needs to be done on some issues like our healthcare system) They need to remind people of how we got to where we are today.

I agree that they haven't been good at getting the message out. Hardly anyone I know has a clue that RER is happening, or what it is, or even that all day service is imminent on several lines. People just think that transit sucks and nothing is being done about it. If they want to ensure the survival of RER beyond their time in power, they need some way of raising awareness.

 

[Avenue]

I think cancelling Finch West LRT wouldn't really cost Brown many votes. If the construction doesn't start soon, that is.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

I think cancelling Finch West LRT wouldn't really cost Brown many votes. If the construction doesn't start soon, that is.

Construction starts this year - and with AFP contracts, that esentially is the point of no-return without huge headaches. Finch West will be built.

 

[Avenue]

This has been my biggest pet peeve with the Wynne government. They have done a lot of good for the Province, but they allow the critics and opposition to rally around small issues to discredit the work the Liberals have done.

Ie. The hydro system was in shambles when the Liberals took over. We had frequent blackouts and threats of rolling brownouts during peak consumption times. Our power plants were constantly being shut down, and we suffered through many smog days. The opposition has gone after hydro prices effectively, while the Liberals remain dead silent on all of the improvements we have seen since they came into power.

Same goes for their stance on tolls/HOT/HOV lanes. The opposition has effectively taken over the discussion by calling them tax-grabs. The Province should be showing how these fees can help commuters in the long run. Explain how transformative RER will be, explain how improved transit will result in less commute time for everyone including road users, explain how this amount of investment was never seen under the previous government and that it makes sense that money will need to come from somewhere.

I do hope they eventually realize this and put together a campaign showing Ontarian's just how much better off we are today than we were under the PC's. We've come a long way since then. (Yes, there is still work that needs to be done on some issues like our healthcare system) They need to remind people of how we got to where we are today.

I agree that they haven't been good at getting the message out. Hardly anyone I know has a clue that RER is happening, or what it is, or even that all day service is imminent on several lines. People just think that transit sucks and nothing is being done about it. If they want to ensure the survival of RER beyond their time in power, they need some way of raising awareness.

Getting the message out is harder than ever because the public discourse has turned more ideological than ever, which is the global trend. And the media being the media focuses on what's the easiest to sensationalize, thus improvements like RER is drowned out. I don't really know how they could have done a better job of getting people to agree how hugely beneficial RER will be under these conditions.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I was thinking the same thing. The Liberals have 1 1/2 years to start tunnelling for the DRL and build some stations concurrently as they go along

Progress has been painfully slow these past 3.5 years. Maybe they'll sign a bunch of RER, DRL and other contracts in their last year.

 

[innsertnamehere]

DRL is far from construction ready. It is 3-4 years from shovels in the ground still. It has wide political support however, so I suspect even the conservatives will support it. Hudak made it the centre of his transit plan in 2014.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

DRL is far from construction ready. It is 3-4 years from shovels in the ground still. It has wide political support however, so I suspect even the conservatives will support it. Hudak made it the centre of his transit plan in 2014.

Final design of is typically handled by a design/build consortium, correct? I believe that's what's happening with Crosstown.

If so, the design/build contracts can be signed as soon as this year, once the TPAP is complete. The Relief Line website itself says it should enter design phase by beginning of 2018.

I'd prefer for a design/build consortium to handle construction and design, just because it means cancelling becomes very challenging. Any cancellation would result in stiff financial penalties.

 

[Palma]

Final design of is typically handled by a design/build consortium, correct? I believe that's what's happening with Crosstown.

If so, the design/build contracts can be signed as soon as this year, once the TPAP is complete. The Relief Line website itself says it should enter design phase by beginning of 2018.

I'd prefer for a design/build consortium to handle construction and design, just because it means cancelling becomes very challenging. Any cancellation would result in stiff financial penalties.

but why would there not be penalties if it were a different type of construction and would be cancelled?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

but why would there not be penalties if it were a different type of construction and would be cancelled?

The other option is for the TTC to design and build. If the project gets canceled in the design phase, the TTC obviously won't charge hundred of millions in cancelation penalties. A design and build consortium would. So having the TTC do it makes it more prone to cancelation.