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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

I still don't know St. Patrick from St. Andrew. I know where Museum is there thanks to the museum. i don't think there is a St. Patrick or St. Andrew building or tower on top of the subway stop.

It may have been discussed elsewhere, but as a tourist in Tokyo, I loved that each transit line had a letter (I guess we are never planning on building more than 9, so numbers will do for us). Each station also had a number. It made it easy to navigate for a tourist, especially those who don't speak the language.
 
well it will all depend on the how exotic they want the final station designs to be. If theyre simple and more or less cookie cutter, we they can be built quite quickly with smaller chances of unforseen delays.
Now on the other hand if they decide to go fancy on their final designs, it might turn out like the YUS Ext.

Eglinton's timeline is determined by the hardest stations (neither subway interchange is cookie cutter or simple; with Yonge being the harder of the 2). Opening the line without those 2 stations isn't very helpful.
 
Eglinton Crosstown Future Eglinton Station: Open House Meeting

Monday, May 30, 2016

6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
North Toronto Collegiate Institute - Commons (Cafeteria)
17 Broadway Avenue

cts_open_house_eglinton_station_ad_map_2.jpg


From Link.
 
Eglinton's timeline is determined by the hardest stations (neither subway interchange is cookie cutter or simple; with Yonge being the harder of the 2). Opening the line without those 2 stations isn't very helpful.

That is why, as hard as it is to believe, they could still change plans and make the portion from Laird to Kennedy fully grade-separated - thus saving the cost of the SSE - and it would still be the interchange stations that are on the critical path

:) see, I didn't use the word elevated :)
 
I don't know if it's even worth going to an open house once you been to one of them. They give out the same info and tweak the presentation by 5 slides.
 
Eglinton Crosstown Future Mount Dennis Station: Open House Meeting

Mount Dennis Station Open House

Thursday, May 26, 2016

6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

The Learning Enrichment Foundation

1267 Weston Road

From Link.

Why oh why are there so many public meetings scheduled on the same couple of days next week? I would like to attend, but now I'm forced to choose between that and the Lakeshore East Corridor Expansion (also by Metrolinx) or Waterfront Transit Reset. The day before that it's the same problem: Waterfront Transit, Lakeshore Corridor, and Reimagining Yonge Street all at the same time. I'm almost certain there are even more events on those days which I'm unable to recall at the moment.

Also, just like last time, the city decided to Schedule their SmartTrack West meeting on a Saturday, early in the morning, at a location where it takes a lot of time to get to by transit. Not cool.
 
Also, don't compare this with the ION. That's an LRT and this is an actually subway. The on-street LRT section doesn't start till 2018 and would end in 2021 (only 3 or so years).
I went to Kitchener-Waterloo and took pictures of ION LRT.
It's a LOT more like Crosstown than you think...

* Eglinton Crosstown is an LRT
* Eglinton Crosstown has surface sections.
* Kitchener-Waterloo use the same vehicles as Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
* ION LRT also has long surface sections without crossings, same as TTC Subway
* Traffic separated. This is not slow TTC streetcar.
* ION LRT support chaining into trains (2-vehicle consists, platforms are long enough)
* Level boarding subway-style
* All-doors open subway-style, 100% wheelchair accessible. Platforms are about double-curb-height.
* No automatic wheelchair ramps needed like TTC new streetcars need them!
* ION planned LRT speed is similar to TTC downtown subway thanks to automatic green lights for LRT.

Also, in other cities when I board a modern "wheel-on-wheel-off" LRT whose all doors open flush to platform (unlike any TTC streetcar routes) -- and zooms through good automatic green lights at intersections -- it feels like a 75% subway, 25% bus -- even though it goes through surface intersections. It definitely DOES NOT feel like a TTC streetcar experience. It feels faster and more subwaylike than even Spadina TTC which is often left waiting at red lights and still needs wheelchair ramps. Modern surface LRT stop design much more subway-feel with a fleet of simultaneous doors opening and fully-wheel-on accessible. Some LRT stops for ION (even ones on street) often look closely like TTC's surface subway stops!

Now imagine a 2-LRT consist instead with 100% perfect level boarding all-doors-automatic open. Real LRT's with good transit-priority green-light systems often only have to stop when it's at an LRT stop. Zoom, stop, all doors open, perfect level, all doors close, zoom to next stop. Even through intersections.

The "subway-feel" experience also includes the ability to stand while reading a newspaper, tablet, or texting/surfing on smartphone, you can stand on a modern smooth-running LRT without grabbing a pole, much like on the TTC subway. From Olden Days of reading newspaper to today's kids reading smartphones; you can see it happening at lot more often on the TTC subway or Spadina Streetcar (traffic separated, even if platforms aren't subway-style like for ION LRT) than on TTC buses. It is a much more comfortable ride for standees, at peak, especially older people who lose balance on a bus as it shifts around and accelerates/stops more unpredictably. The "BUS INSTEAD OF LRT" supporters needs to understand this, as well. Buses are important too; and LRT stops amplifies the ridership of nearby/connecting buses.

Of course, specific sections will be a little more slower -- turns in ION LRT especially nearer downtown -- will slow things down, but Finch West LRT, Crosstown LRT and Hamilton LRT are fairly straight-arrow LRTs -- and simplifies green-light transit-priority systems which doesn't work very well on TTC as in properly implemented, well-functioning LRT traffic priority systems. The fact that Eglinton Crosstown LRT has an underground section, definitely makes it feel MORE like a subway (of underground parlance).

TL;DR: It is my experience that properly implemented modern surface sections of LRT's actually "feel" more like TTC subway rather than TTC streetcars. (performancewise, speed, boarding experience, dedicated lanes, no stopping except at stops thanks to good automatic green lights & farside platforms, etc) On some good surface LRT routes on roads, the only thing that doesn't feel subway-like is that it isn't underground.
 
Why oh why are there so many public meetings scheduled on the same couple of days next week? I would like to attend, but now I'm forced to choose between that and the Lakeshore East Corridor Expansion (also by Metrolinx) or Waterfront Transit Reset. The day before that it's the same problem: Waterfront Transit, Lakeshore Corridor, and Reimagining Yonge Street all at the same time. I'm almost certain there are even more events on those days which I'm unable to recall at the moment.

Also, just like last time, the city decided to Schedule their SmartTrack West meeting on a Saturday, early in the morning, at a location where it takes a lot of time to get to by transit. Not cool.

I have scheduling conflicts as well. Have to look online after the meetings and give comments afterwards.
 
Once the tunneled section section is completed this summer, how long will it take to build the stations, lay tracks? Does it really have to take another three years til its operational?
 
No it doesn't take another. 3 years to become operational. 5 years is probably more realistic. I think the schedule was 2011, and TTC thought it was too optimistic.
 
I went to Kitchener-Waterloo and took pictures of ION LRT.
It's a LOT more like Crosstown than you think...

* Eglinton Crosstown is an LRT
* Eglinton Crosstown has surface sections.
* Kitchener-Waterloo use the same vehicles as Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
* ION LRT also has long surface sections without crossings, same as TTC Subway
* Traffic separated. This is not slow TTC streetcar.
* ION LRT support chaining into trains (2-vehicle consists, platforms are long enough)
* Level boarding subway-style
* All-doors open subway-style, 100% wheelchair accessible. Platforms are about double-curb-height.
* No automatic wheelchair ramps needed like TTC new streetcars need them!
* ION planned LRT speed is similar to TTC downtown subway thanks to automatic green lights for LRT.

Also, in other cities when I board a modern "wheel-on-wheel-off" LRT whose all doors open flush to platform (unlike any TTC streetcar routes) -- and zooms through good automatic green lights at intersections -- it feels like a 75% subway, 25% bus -- even though it goes through surface intersections. It definitely DOES NOT feel like a TTC streetcar experience. It feels faster and more subwaylike than even Spadina TTC which is often left waiting at red lights and still needs wheelchair ramps. Modern surface LRT stop design much more subway-feel with a fleet of simultaneous doors opening and fully-wheel-on accessible. Some LRT stops for ION (even ones on street) often look closely like TTC's surface subway stops!

Now imagine a 2-LRT consist instead with 100% perfect level boarding all-doors-automatic open. Real LRT's with good transit-priority green-light systems often only have to stop when it's at an LRT stop. Zoom, stop, all doors open, perfect level, all doors close, zoom to next stop. Even through intersections.

The "subway-feel" experience also includes the ability to stand while reading a newspaper, tablet, or texting/surfing on smartphone, you can stand on a modern smooth-running LRT without grabbing a pole, much like on the TTC subway. From Olden Days of reading newspaper to today's kids reading smartphones; you can see it happening at lot more often on the TTC subway or Spadina Streetcar (traffic separated, even if platforms aren't subway-style like for ION LRT) than on TTC buses. It is a much more comfortable ride for standees, at peak, especially older people who lose balance on a bus as it shifts around and accelerates/stops more unpredictably. The "BUS INSTEAD OF LRT" supporters needs to understand this, as well. Buses are important too; and LRT stops amplifies the ridership of nearby/connecting buses.

Of course, specific sections will be a little more slower -- turns in ION LRT especially nearer downtown -- will slow things down, but Finch West LRT, Crosstown LRT and Hamilton LRT are fairly straight-arrow LRTs -- and simplifies green-light transit-priority systems which doesn't work very well on TTC as in properly implemented, well-functioning LRT traffic priority systems. The fact that Eglinton Crosstown LRT has an underground section, definitely makes it feel MORE like a subway (of underground parlance).

TL;DR: It is my experience that properly implemented modern surface sections of LRT's actually "feel" more like TTC subway rather than TTC streetcars. (performancewise, speed, boarding experience, dedicated lanes, no stopping except at stops thanks to good automatic green lights & farside platforms, etc) On some good surface LRT routes on roads, the only thing that doesn't feel subway-like is that it isn't underground.
I was describing the construction work behind the project. I totally agree that the ION would feel like more riding a subway. In fact it is very comparable to the Calgary C-Trains which operates closer to a subway in the suburbs reaching 80 km/h. Except that the C-Trains have a intensively slow downtown section. The ION will suffer from this too unlike the Crosstown or Ottawa's Confederation Line. It would be faster than a streetcar but definitely no where near subway speed. We'll see how transit priority works.

LRVs vs subway cars: The LRT will still feel rougher than a subway. If anyone has an experience of the 501 on the Queensway ROW, they'll know it feels nothing like a subway. The TTC streetcars are rougher than the C-Trains, that's for sure. It feels like the car is swing back and forth. The use of low floor cars on newly built tracks would feel much better than Queensway but very likely not the subway. The significantly lighter and low floor cars have a disadvantage here.

The alignment: Those who rode the Calgary C-Trains would know that the network is mostly built on pedestrian unfriendly areas. The south line for example is built beside a railway corridor. This is true for portions of the ION. The area feels sketchy and isolated at night. It doesn't really attract people to go there and use the LRTs when it's in the middle of no where. It's worst when each station has a huge parking lot than encourages driving to the station. It doesn't feel urban at all. The crosstown is on a busy street which gives that a big plus over the ION, the C-Trains and Ottawa's LRT. Yes it's easier to build a faster line without tunneling and a decade of construction but you don't get the same environment as a subway. I feel much safer to use the Crosstown than ION.
 
All good and fair points:
If anyone has an experience of the 501 on the Queensway ROW, they'll know it feels nothing like a subway.
So does some of TTC's weather-exposed surface sections, especially with older trains.
The new LRVs run smoother than old streetcars, and they are installing tracks to tighter specs than the TTC tracks (including St. Clair).

Concrete ties in railroad ROWs give a super smooth ride:

image.jpeg


And complete rubber wrap (1/2 - 3/4") around the rails in the embedded sections.
Rubber covers left, right, and bottom (thicker on the outer side) so no contact between rail and concrete. It softens the ride and quiets ambient noise.

image.jpeg


For embedded, from what I saw in Kitchener-Waterloo, the precision and tolerances look much tighter than St. Clair. It will easily run much smoother than the Queensway ROW for most of the route.

Based on my experience with similar LRT in other cities, it probably will run a bit rougher than TTC new trains in the well-maintained underground sections (especially if debris exists), but smoother than the roughest parts of the TTC subway network, especially surface routes.

The precision they are doing in Kitchener-Waterloo is much better than I expected.
 

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