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sixrings
Senior Member
of course its about getting people from point A to Point B...... I aM pretty sure christopher hume recognizes this as well.... However he is a architecture writer.... Hes looking at the ADDITIONAL benefits....
So like you say....
Benefit
1. A to B faster then bus
2. A to B more comfortable with more room then a bus and more convienent
3. (HUMES POINT) The potential of the area surrounding A and B to become actually liveable and likable Versus a suburban mess full of gas stations, strip plazas and low density run down housing.... (Forget it hes probably a DAMN sociallist)
So like you say....
Benefit
1. A to B faster then bus
2. A to B more comfortable with more room then a bus and more convienent
3. (HUMES POINT) The potential of the area surrounding A and B to become actually liveable and likable Versus a suburban mess full of gas stations, strip plazas and low density run down housing.... (Forget it hes probably a DAMN sociallist)
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The ONLY reason why Finch is a mess is because of the planning dept NOT the TTC. If the planning dept would have required pedestrian friendly urban road design for Finch years ago then we wouldn't have to worry about "creating a community". Finch is a mess because of The City and not the TTC.
Building streetcar lines is no guarantee of good urban development if the planning isn't in place. Also it does not have to be a streetcar to build a pedestrian friendly liveable community as BRT can also do that as proven by the incredibly successful Healthline in Cleveland. Even in Cleveland where development is often taken at any price the Healthline connecting downtown withe University/Medical Centre has seen huge amounts of infill commercial and residential along the line which runs on the once mighty Euclid Ave. It was a decaying street which is common in Cleveland but the city wanted to bring it back to it's former glory. They couldn't afford LRT so went with BRT. Naturally it was laughed at by the LRT interest groups but Clevelanders are having the last laugh. It was the city's busiest bus route and ridership has soared by 50% in just 18 months. The beautified the street, widened the sidewalks, created infill incentives, and created a sense of place between these two large employment centers. It has greatly helped the downtown as well and has rave reviews from the citizens themselves.
Using top of the line articulated modern looking and feeling buses which are comfortable and quiet, POP, well sheltered stops, public art, and pedestrian firendly planning the street and immediate area are booming. There is a massive amount of low rise residential lofts, apts, condos being built despite the fact that Cleveland is awash with empty homes and extremely cheap housing.
My point is that a streetcar does not make an area all of a sudden desirable...........all it does it provide a potential impetus but BRT , as Cleveland has shown, can do that as well but is cheaper, faster to build, more flexible, and more expandable.
Building streetcar lines is no guarantee of good urban development if the planning isn't in place. Also it does not have to be a streetcar to build a pedestrian friendly liveable community as BRT can also do that as proven by the incredibly successful Healthline in Cleveland. Even in Cleveland where development is often taken at any price the Healthline connecting downtown withe University/Medical Centre has seen huge amounts of infill commercial and residential along the line which runs on the once mighty Euclid Ave. It was a decaying street which is common in Cleveland but the city wanted to bring it back to it's former glory. They couldn't afford LRT so went with BRT. Naturally it was laughed at by the LRT interest groups but Clevelanders are having the last laugh. It was the city's busiest bus route and ridership has soared by 50% in just 18 months. The beautified the street, widened the sidewalks, created infill incentives, and created a sense of place between these two large employment centers. It has greatly helped the downtown as well and has rave reviews from the citizens themselves.
Using top of the line articulated modern looking and feeling buses which are comfortable and quiet, POP, well sheltered stops, public art, and pedestrian firendly planning the street and immediate area are booming. There is a massive amount of low rise residential lofts, apts, condos being built despite the fact that Cleveland is awash with empty homes and extremely cheap housing.
My point is that a streetcar does not make an area all of a sudden desirable...........all it does it provide a potential impetus but BRT , as Cleveland has shown, can do that as well but is cheaper, faster to build, more flexible, and more expandable.
Mapleson
Active Member
Years ago? Like before 1997? I agree that good planning needs to go along side good transit. Finch is just another seam of the city that wasn't developed well because of political borders.
Eug
Senior Member
I thought I'd try the Bloor-Danforth crosstown route today, as I've never done it before. Unfortunately, the Kipling subway isn't running today for track maintenance. So I got on the shuttle bus from Kipling station at 12:34, and I'm on my way to Jane station. This express bus is making me nauseated…
EDIT:
Got to Jane at 12:53.
I think we got going at around 12:58, so:
12:34 - Kipling shuttle bus
12:58 - Jane
13:10 - Spadina
13:13 - Yonge
13:19 - Broadview
13:25 - Coxwell
13:30 - Victoria Park
13:37 - Kennedy
The TTC schedule states it should take 38 mins from Jane to Kennedy. That's almost bang on. Pretty good. Will the Jane to Kennedy trip on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT be as fast?
EDIT:
Got to Jane at 12:53.
I think we got going at around 12:58, so:
12:34 - Kipling shuttle bus
12:58 - Jane
13:10 - Spadina
13:13 - Yonge
13:19 - Broadview
13:25 - Coxwell
13:30 - Victoria Park
13:37 - Kennedy
The TTC schedule states it should take 38 mins from Jane to Kennedy. That's almost bang on. Pretty good. Will the Jane to Kennedy trip on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT be as fast?
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Amy Rose
Active Member
The same or faster, but it will be inaccurate because I believe there is a 1km difference between Jane and Black Creek Drive, and the fact that the entire ECLRT will be underground excluding Kennedy and onwards.
I heard somewhere that since the Mark I trains were so loud that there had to be a 30 km/h speed restriction past 10pm. Will that be lifted once the LRT line is open?
Eug
Senior Member
IIRC, the ECLRT will go above ground at the Don Valley.
Interesting. Can anyone verify this?
sixrings
Senior Member
The ECLRT is not going above ground at Don Valley...
Eug
Senior Member
Metrolinx Transit Project:
Metrolinx is responsible for delivering the Eglinton Scarborough Crosstown LRT project. This includes securing environmental approvals, designing, coordinating, planning, constructing and implementing. Upon completion, Metrolinx will retain ownership of this transit service.
This project will be a single LRT line running about 25.2 kilometres:
* Along Eglinton Avenue from Black Creek Drive in the west to Kennedy Station in the east. It will run largely in a tunnel except for sections in the Don Valley, in the approaches to Kennedy Station.
* Along the existing grade-separated guideway for the Scarborough RT between Kennedy Station and Scarborough City Centre.
The project will also include up to 26 new stations, LRT, maintenance and storage facilities, and rail and signal systems. The cost estimate for the project is $8.18 billion.
http://www.toronto.ca/mayor_ford/improving-transit.htm
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I also read elsewhere that it will not be underground near Black Creek either.
Metrolinx is responsible for delivering the Eglinton Scarborough Crosstown LRT project. This includes securing environmental approvals, designing, coordinating, planning, constructing and implementing. Upon completion, Metrolinx will retain ownership of this transit service.
This project will be a single LRT line running about 25.2 kilometres:
* Along Eglinton Avenue from Black Creek Drive in the west to Kennedy Station in the east. It will run largely in a tunnel except for sections in the Don Valley, in the approaches to Kennedy Station.
* Along the existing grade-separated guideway for the Scarborough RT between Kennedy Station and Scarborough City Centre.
The project will also include up to 26 new stations, LRT, maintenance and storage facilities, and rail and signal systems. The cost estimate for the project is $8.18 billion.
http://www.toronto.ca/mayor_ford/improving-transit.htm
---
I also read elsewhere that it will not be underground near Black Creek either.
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Yes, it will. It doesn't make much sense to tunnel underneath a steep valley, mainly because the tunnel depth leading up to the valley would need to be huge. It's easier just to have it exit a tunnel either in the side of the hill, or directly before the edge of the valley, and then travel a bridge over it. In fact, aside from Hogg's Hollow, I can't think of any subway-river crossing in Toronto that is actually tunnelled.
Mimico Creek, the Humber River, the Rosedale Ravine, and the Don Valley are all bridged over. So it wouldn't be unique to have the Eglinton line follow suit.
Bayer
Senior Member
Meanwhile, last weekend, I happened to be in Reims, France on the inauguration day of their brand new LRT...
Eug
Senior Member
I just wish shovels would hit the ground soon.
I'd hate to see the 2011 target date get pushed back until well after the election. They need to get the damn thing started already.
I'd hate to see the 2011 target date get pushed back until well after the election. They need to get the damn thing started already.
sixrings
Senior Member
I was hopeful that the Eglinton LRT would make a connection to the Airport line or the georgetown line... I thought this might spark a redevelopment of the neighbourhood... Now I wonder whats to happen with it stopping at black creek..
superman
Active Member
I think the plan is for a connection at the Black Creek Station, I'm guessing this station will be a bit more west of Black Creek in order for this to happen/
Eug
Senior Member
Now that you mention it, has there been any discussion about potentially building a GO station there? I had not heard that, but I don't follow these things anywhere nearly as closely as some others here.
Interestingly, Black Creek Drive is less than 300 m from the GO line, with not a lot of stuff built in between. Who owns that stretch of land?
Interestingly, Black Creek Drive is less than 300 m from the GO line, with not a lot of stuff built in between. Who owns that stretch of land?
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