Good point. Then maybe they would just plan on doing the central section for now, and then opening the East and Scarborough sections together.
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Good point. Then maybe they would just plan on doing the central section for now, and then opening the East and Scarborough sections together.
lafard
Active Member
The problem with this is exactly the same as with the Sheppard-only proposal. There isn't enough condo demand to pay for the line, no matter how you distribute the development within the city.
Eglinton would benefit from being more central - you would have more demand and would be able to sell the units for more money (= higher taxes coming in) but the reality is that 5-10,000 condo units a year is the limit the market can bear, yielding a million dollars every couple years in development fees. Look at North York Centre - a 2km stretch that is still not substantially built out despite being decades old. Now imagine 25x as much avenue to finance. That's basicaly allocating 2/3 of Toronto's annual population growth to these two corridors.
Yes, this is a development the size of Cityplace every single year - but spread over 50km x 100m plot of land, that's less than 1% a year of the land supply being developed annually- and that's assuming that development elsewhere in the 416 is shifted onto this corridor substantially, and that there is no real estate correction dramatically shrinking the size of the condo market or that the current build rate is sustainable (which is of course, not clear at this time)
The private financing scheme is not workable. I'm glad that Eglinton was the winner here.
Eug
Senior Member
Agreed on both counts.
I was very concerned that the Sheppard subway would get funding and then Eglinton would be left severely crippled, with perhaps only the central tunnelled portion and nothing else. This new announcement favouring Eglinton is a major shift for Ford and friends.
Voltz
Senior Member
But now Finch, Sheppard and Malvern are the losers, all because of Fords fear of surface rail tranist.
Eug
Senior Member
Finch will be fine with BRT.
However, Malvern and Sheppard are dead.
Out of all of the above the one that concerns me the most is Malvern, not Sheppard or Finch.
nfitz
Superstar
Except that there is no plan to build BRT on Finch West. All the city has promised is an "an enhanced bus service". Expect something more like the existing 199 Finch Rocket that runs from Yonge to Scarborough Centre with no new infrastructure, other than perhaps a paved shoulder at an intersection here and there, and transit priority traffic lights, similar to that they already use at some other intersections.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
Map:
Eug
Senior Member
Good point. Noted.
lafard
Active Member
It could be worse. That's what we're reduced to.
I think there is a bit of space for optimism here. With Eglinton out of the way, the remaining LRTs can be built for relative pocket change by a transit-friendly future government. The balance of Transit City can be resurrected for a relative pittance compared to what we've spent on Eglinton now.
Sheppard too, has been taken care of. Either it gets built or it doesn't, but this is probably its last hurrah and we can stop spending so much time and money angsting over it. If Ford gets it built, great, if he fails then that's it, we can finally write it off as an expensive mistake and move forward as a city.
I think that once Ont. takes care of its deficit, and the political pendulum swings back left in a couple years, things are lookign bright. I wouldn't be surprised if we did end up building Finch, Malvern and the Airport extension of Eg before the buried part opens.
To add to what I said earlier about extending the SRT, Steve Munro seems to echo a similar thought process: "All that said, by the time they get to actually building the outer parts of the line, they may reactivate the extension of the SRT further north and that gets you into range of the proposed new RT yard east of McCowan."
Solid Snake
Active Member
There's not even an Express branch on Finch West. Adding lots of 36E is a good way to start. Add HOV line and you will have drastically improve service on Finch...Until a Post Rob Ford mayor brings it back on the table
nfitz
Superstar
There's no money for an HOV lane. An express bus would help many routes ... but is a real kick in the balls for those that were promised much more.
Another broken McGuinty transit promise.
To be fair, McGuinty really had to walk a tightrope with this one though. Had to balance a bunch of different interests, and come out with something that could still stand on its own two feet, but that contained something for everybody. Personally, I think his solution to Sheppard is genius. Give Ford his own little sandbox to fool around in, which Metrolinx continues on.
With the Sheppard subway, either way McGuinty wins. If it fails miserably, he can say "we didn't think it was a good idea from the beginning. THAT'S Conservative's policies for you". If he somehow pulls it off, not only does Toronto get a subway, but he can spin in that he helped get it off the ground. And in the short term, he can be seen as playing nice with Ford.
nfitz
Superstar
Metrolinx got everything it always wanted from before they made the deal with Miller. They always wanted Eglinton as grade-separated. They never wanted to be involved with the other LRT lines. And they had no interest in extending the SRT east of Scarborough Centre. Miller strong-armed them into Sheppard East, Finch, and the SRT extension to Malvern.
Metrolinx basically got Ford to give into the the original position Metrolinx wanted all along, have Toronto pay for the cancellations, AND take on Presto.
Ford doesn't seem to have gotten a single concession from the Province. If Nick Kouvalis negotiated this, as was rumoured, he has to be the worst negotiator ever! McGuinty must be laughing himself silly.
Metrolinx basically got Ford to give into the the original position Metrolinx wanted all along, have Toronto pay for the cancellations, AND take on Presto.
Ford doesn't seem to have gotten a single concession from the Province. If Nick Kouvalis negotiated this, as was rumoured, he has to be the worst negotiator ever! McGuinty must be laughing himself silly.