Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[andrewpmk]

As for LA the LRT mostly runs in low density areas much lower density that Eglinton. A short underground LRT line is planned through downtown LA to connect three existing LRT lines together, but must be LRT because it is an existing system. The Wilshire subway will go through a very high density area. A lot of the reason LA's LRT ridership is so low is that LA's transit system is not very good so most people drive. Toronto definitely isn't like that. If this condo development at Don Mills/Eglinton has about 1000 parking spaces for about 3000 units so obviously most of its residents will not drive to work.

 

[Tuscani01]

As for LA the LRT mostly runs in low density areas much lower density that Eglinton. A short underground LRT line is planned through downtown LA to connect three existing LRT lines together, but must be LRT because it is an existing system. The Wilshire subway will go through a very high density area. A lot of the reason LA's LRT ridership is so low is that LA's transit system is not very good so most people drive. Toronto definitely isn't like that. If this condo development at Don Mills/Eglinton has about 1000 parking spaces for about 3000 units so obviously most of its residents will not drive to work.

The density/number of units, and parking is nothing but a number out of thin air right now. This project is nothing more than a proposal. Planning will likely ask for more parking spots, and the density will likely decrease since planning wants to preserve employment land in the city. Even without those changes, 3000 units doesn't mean 3000 people will be taking transit at the same time.

 

[andrewpmk]

There are several people living in each unit remember? An average of 3 people per unit seems likely if this development has 3 bedroom units.

You have to guess how many people from this development will use the Eglinton line westbound from 8-9am on weekdays because this is the busiest hour. Others may use the line at other hours, use the line eastbound towards Kennedy in the morning, take bus route 25 or other buses, walk to work or drive. Does 2000 people in the peak hour seem realistic for about 10000 residents? People using the line off peak don't matter because hopefully the line won't be busy during these times.

Keep in mind there are around 20000 existing residents of this area already who will use this line, plus users of bus 25, 54 and 100 transferring. There will be some users of the LRT coming from further east but my guess it will be under capacity westbound east of Don Mills and severely overcrowded west of there. Assume no DRL is built.

Also keep in mind there are several other sites near Don Mills that are mostly parking that could hold thousands more residents if redeveloped as well.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The TTC did a lousy job with these projections, they never really revealed where the numbers came from.

And where are you getting your numbers?

Oh right... you don't have any.

 

[salsa]

that's simply typical large city living.
I like crowded subways, because it shows the system is receiving a lot of fare payment and doesn't need to be subsidized as much. Half empty trains at 8:30am worry me since taxes are obviously not used in the right place.

I don't disagree on your point about half empty trains, which is why I cringe whenever I use the Sheppard line. But being left on the platform is not something to be happy about either. Try asking the average person how much they enjoy their bus and subway commute every day. Worst of all, the city is not building nearly enough transit as it should be, so things will only get worse.

 

[gweed123]

I also think having Eglinton short turn at Laird instead of Don Mills will be a massive headache in the long-term.

Yup, right now that's my biggest issue with the Eglinton LRT proposal as-is. Don Mills is already a planned N-S rapid transit corridor (with the proposed LRT), and it will likely end up being the eventual terminus of the DRL as well. It makes no sense to have the short turn a couple stops short of that. It would be like short-turning half of the SRT trains at Midland.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Surely ML has a justification. They aren't fools.

 

[sixrings]

Yup, right now that's my biggest issue with the Eglinton LRT proposal as-is. Don Mills is already a planned N-S rapid transit corridor (with the proposed LRT), and it will likely end up being the eventual terminus of the DRL as well. It makes no sense to have the short turn a couple stops short of that. It would be like short-turning half of the SRT trains at Midland.

until the line is complete Im going to believe that the leslie stop isn't happening.. I know that evidence is opposite but with the liberals winning the election I think they might reverse there decision again and use another mumbo jumbo excuse...

 

[kd86]

until the line is complete Im going to believe that the leslie stop isn't happening.. I know that evidence is opposite but with the liberals winning the election I think they might reverse there decision again and use another mumbo jumbo excuse...

well let's hope so, because the only people I see using that stop are joggers and dog walker, who may want to use the park.

 

[smallspy]

We are talking about a huge multi-building development that probably will hold 10,000 residents or so, not just 1 small condo development.

It would take every single one of those people onto the LRT in one hour to meet its potential capacity threshold. In one direction.

Do your numbers also include the likelihood of that happening?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[kd86]

I may be dreaming but I hope when JOHN TORY WINS common-sense will prevail and perhaps the money used for that cash-pit you call the Scarborough subway extension will be transferred over to Eglinton; that way the line can be fully grade separated. Of course this is all wishful thinking as transit planning in Toronto has become so skewed and polluted with ill informed decisions, the status quo is likely to happen.
Thanks David Miller, Rob Ford and Karen Stintz, this is largely your fault.

 

[ksun]

I don't disagree on your point about half empty trains, which is why I cringe whenever I use the Sheppard line. But being left on the platform is not something to be happy about either. Try asking the average person how much they enjoy their bus and subway commute every day. Worst of all, the city is not building nearly enough transit as it should be, so things will only get worse.

I am not wanting crowdedness for the sake it.
What I am suggesting is, those folks who will use the LRT didn't come from thin air. They are residents of GTA and most of them are using the buses to get to work anywhere. There is no incremental passengers created by the LRT.
I think it is a better experience for them to take the Eglinton LRT than whatever buses they take now everyday.

 

[BurlOak]

Yup, right now that's my biggest issue with the Eglinton LRT proposal as-is. Don Mills is already a planned N-S rapid transit corridor (with the proposed LRT), and it will likely end up being the eventual terminus of the DRL as well. It makes no sense to have the short turn a couple stops short of that. It would be like short-turning half of the SRT trains at Midland.

The current design of Eglinton and the short-turn at Laird probably means that the DRL will not be built, and that the B-D subway will be built for $1.5B extra.

Without the ECLRT bringing huge numbers of people to the DRL, it will not be built to Eglinton. Also, the Flemingdon and Thorncliffe areas do not have the political clout to get the DRL build north of Eglinton. Then the question will come up on why build the DRL to Pape if GO REX type service would serve more people for less money.

I also think Andrewpmk is wrong that the ECLRT will be overcrowded. The current design will do little to encourage car drivers to switch to TTC, so the number of riders will not be huge. Also, the discontinuous nature of the line will ensure that it will not be used to what should be its full potential.

I could also relieve the Y-B interchange as follows: The B-D goes from Kennedy (or STC) to Main, there people are forced onto buses to go to Broadview, then the subways continue from there westward. (i.e. simply decommission a part of the existing subway). This was people will transfer onto GO (with integrated fares) and relieve Y-B. Essentially, this is what was done to Eglinton to make the on-street portion workable.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This is why putting LRT on Eglinton is such a bad idea. A developer wants to tear down the Celestica building at Eglinton/Don Mills and replace it with thousands of condo units. http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/08/crosstown_lrt_spurs_massive_redevelopment_proposal/ It looks like Celestica will move to new buildings which occupy the eastern end of the site rather than moving to somewhere else in the GTA.

My guess is the Real Canadian Superstore will get redeveloped, as will the Ontario Science Centre parking lot, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints parking lot. There are probably also a few strip plazas and maybe some low rise office buildings that could be torn down to build more density. Expect tens of thousands of new residents at least once all these sites get redeveloped. This proposal alone says 2,897 units (claims they will be all 3 bedroom, seems rather unusual to me) which seems to suggest we will have about 10,000 people living in this development alone.

Has anyone at Metrolinx or TTC thought about what building massive condo developments will do to this line? My guess is that you will get several thousand new riders westbound during the peak hour of 8-9am on weekdays from a development of this size. Add in demand from the existing 20,000 or so residents of the Flemingdon Park area (who might walk or use bus 100), people transferring from bus routes 25 and 54, and people coming from further east and I have a suspicion that the LRT, if we don't change it to a subway now like we did with the Scarborough RT in the 1980s, and with no downtown relief line, will be overcrowded west of Don Mills, west in AM rush hour and east in PM rush hour. The inaccurate ridership projections that the Miller administration created are probably totally invalid if huge condo developments of this size get built, as I suspect that they assume that very little or no new development gets built along Eglinton and are totally invalid if that is not the case.

Don't count on the downtown relief line being built to deal with this problem because it is so expensive, so unlikely to get built anytime soon. Even if that does built, I'm not sure whether a new north south line will exactly mean that an east west line isn't still really busy, particularly in the long term. (The 401 is much busier than the Don Valley Parkway for instance).

I may be dreaming but I hope when JOHN TORY WINS common-sense will prevail and perhaps the money used for that cash-pit you call the Scarborough subway extension will be transferred over to Eglinton; that way the line can be fully grade separated. Of course this is all wishful thinking as transit planning in Toronto has become so skewed and polluted with ill informed decisions, the status quo is likely to happen.
Thanks David Miller, Rob Ford and Karen Stintz, this is largely your fault.

 

[ehlow]

well let's hope so, because the only people I see using that stop are joggers and dog walker, who may want to use the park.

What about people having their cars serviced at the Toyota dealership?