Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[denfromoakvillemilton]

IIRC, TTC wanted a BRT on Eglinton and Subway on Sheppard. Rae instead funded a shorter subway on Sheppard and shorter subway on Eglinton.

Harris actually did the right thing in cancelling Eglinton as a subway. Numbers didn't support it then and they still don't. Sadly, we never did get the Eglinton BRT.

I feel if it was U T Scarborough to Pearson the numbers(what ever they were) would have been higher.

 

[Palma]

IIRC, TTC wanted a BRT on Eglinton and Subway on Sheppard. Rae instead funded a shorter subway on Sheppard and shorter subway on Eglinton.

Harris actually did the right thing in cancelling Eglinton as a subway. Numbers didn't support it then and they still don't. Sadly, we never did get the Eglinton BRT.

And the numbers warranted Sheppard? A subway should not have gone on a northern avenue (Shepoard) before a southern one (Eglinton) which is a more central avenue. It would be the same as building a subway along Eglinton instead of Bloor/Danforth back in the 50's. Population expands from the core of the city (south) to north (as in suburbs). If a subway is not warranted along a route that is more south and closer to the core then it is not warranted along a route north of it.

And it is hard to believe the TTC wanted Sheppard since they have always said it is more expensive to service areas less dense less then the city. They resisted the elimination of a single fare system with the zone fare system they had - the longer the trip the greater the fare. But all that changed when the politicization of the TTC and the elimination of zoner fare system so obviously if the TTC wanted the Sheppard subway it was because of behind the scene manovering of politicians (especially Lastman)

 

[rbt]

And the numbers warranted Sheppard?

Well yes, but only if you optomistically assume (as they did) that both NYCC and SCC would have a dozen office towers each by this point and continued growth.

Neither region has grown nearly as much as was anticipated. McGuinty's growth zone plans will likely have the same fate since they work under similar assumptions.

We should be building like Chicago (multiple lines intersecting in downtown) instead of trying to reproduce the failure that is the G-line in New York.

 

[Palma]

What is the G-line?

 

[andrewpmk]

IIRC, TTC wanted a BRT on Eglinton and Subway on Sheppard. Rae instead funded a shorter subway on Sheppard and shorter subway on Eglinton.

Harris actually did the right thing in cancelling Eglinton as a subway. Numbers didn't support it then and they still don't. Sadly, we never did get the Eglinton BRT.

Eglinton subway is badly needed. The central sections of Eglinton are traffic choked close to 24/7 so the current bus service is totally ineffective. Plus Eglinton to the airport would serve a major employment area in Mississauga, relieving a very busy section of 401, and is arguably more important than Sheppard.

The major disadvantage of Sheppard I can see is that NYCC employment has lagged (unlike employment near Pearson) and also it would get most of its ridership in peak hours because at other times 401 is much faster. Eglinton traffic is much much worse than Sheppard/401.

If there is no funding for Sheppard subway it makes more sense to build less expensive BRT instead of LRT, then Finch East can get BRT too and Scarborough Centre can keep the bus route 190 service.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What is the G-line?

Brooklyn Queens Subway line.

 

[LNahid2000]

This could give a sense of what it would be like to ride it and maybe the other TC routes at ground level.

And @ 5 mins its stopped for almost 4 minutes which isn't even a stop.


[video=youtube;WHYHMw36NAU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHYHMw36NAU[/video]

I was on the subway today and the train stopped at Eglinton Station for almost 4 minutes!

 

[BurlOak]

Have you considered calling a councillor about this? Posting it on UT won't do much good.

I have e-mailed.

Someone needs to get approval from David Miller to make the change to South Side Allignment between Brentcliffe and DM. Transit voting in Toronto is more about politics than about transit.

I think it would:
1) Be less disruptive to traffic during construction.
2) Be less disruptive to traffic during service.
3) Be easier to build the Station at Don Mills.
4) Be easier to integrate a DRL at Eglinton.
5) Allow for incrreased service for the busier DM to Yonge portion with short turns at DM and not Laird.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I have e-mailed.

Someone needs to get approval from David Miller to make the change to South Side Allignment between Brentcliffe and DM. Transit voting in Toronto is more about politics than about transit.

I think it would:
1) Be less disruptive to traffic during construction.
2) Be less disruptive to traffic during service.
3) Be easier to build the Station at Don Mills.
4) Be easier to integrate a DRL at Eglinton.
5) Allow for incrreased service for the busier DM to Yonge portion with short turns at DM and not Laird.

I'm genuinely curious -- other than a 'transit is about politics in Toronto' dismissal, why would numerous transit engineers draw up plans for this section of the east Eglinton LRT route, and not hit on your 'obvious' choice? Would construction costs be prohibitive? Re-routing cause expensive issues with the tunnel after Laird (e.g. having to move the tunnel mouth to the south side as well?) Maybe my faith is misplaced, but I tend to think that traffic engineers aren't stupid, and they've been working on this route for many years. Why would they miss something so obvious to you?

 

[BurlOak]

I'm genuinely curious -- other than a 'transit is about politics in Toronto' dismissal, why would numerous transit engineers draw up plans for this section of the east Eglinton LRT route, and not hit on your 'obvious' choice? Would construction costs be prohibitive? Re-routing cause expensive issues with the tunnel after Laird (e.g. having to move the tunnel mouth to the south side as well?) Maybe my faith is misplaced, but I tend to think that traffic engineers aren't stupid, and they've been working on this route for many years. Why would they miss something so obvious to you?

I could not read anything about why the side of road alignment is not possible or not economical. My guess is that the marching orders for Transit City were to put the LRT in the median unless the road was too narrow to accomodate it. At Sheppard, I seemed to read a a lot more options that were considered (either stated and dismissed outright or fully studied), but nothing on this stretch.

 

[Neil]

I'm genuinely curious -- other than a 'transit is about politics in Toronto' dismissal, why would numerous transit engineers draw up plans for this section of the east Eglinton LRT route, and not hit on your 'obvious' choice? Would construction costs be prohibitive? Re-routing cause expensive issues with the tunnel after Laird (e.g. having to move the tunnel mouth to the south side as well?) Maybe my faith is misplaced, but I tend to think that traffic engineers aren't stupid, and they've been working on this route for many years. Why would they miss something so obvious to you?

Cost. I agree that south of road is a better idea here but it will cost more money and I think the designers were told to keep costs down wherever possible. TTC engineers do seem to be rather ignorant though on road operations. Other examples: left turn configuration on this line, Don Mills bus station location on this line, single lane under Georgetown line on St Clair...

 

[CDL.TO]

Steve Munro has lamented that Transit City planning worked on the fundamental premise of "always in the middle of the street (except the Eglinton tunnel)" and complained that side-of-street alignments were never considered.

If you attended the Transit City EA public sessions and chatted with the staff on hand, it was very clear that considering alternatives was a minor part of the process, particularly when compared to the full, non-expedited EA process. The question became how to deal with the pre-determined median alignment resulting in some interesting design concepts with "jug handles" and "Michigan lefts".

 

[Rainforest]

I'm genuinely curious -- other than a 'transit is about politics in Toronto' dismissal, why would numerous transit engineers draw up plans for this section of the east Eglinton LRT route, and not hit on your 'obvious' choice? Would construction costs be prohibitive? Re-routing cause expensive issues with the tunnel after Laird (e.g. having to move the tunnel mouth to the south side as well?) Maybe my faith is misplaced, but I tend to think that traffic engineers aren't stupid, and they've been working on this route for many years. Why would they miss something so obvious to you?

Transit engineers aren't stupid. However, note that the design team pretended to maintain a dialog with the residents and general public, and they did explain some other design choices that they made. Since the south-side-of-road option for that section is 'obvious' for a laymen, one would expect that the design team would use the open houses to explain why it was rejected.

Since they chose not to mention it, I suspect that it was not analyzed in any detail.

 

[Voltz]

I'm genuinely curious -- other than a 'transit is about politics in Toronto' dismissal, why would numerous transit engineers draw up plans for this section of the east Eglinton LRT route, and not hit on your 'obvious' choice? Would construction costs be prohibitive? Re-routing cause expensive issues with the tunnel after Laird (e.g. having to move the tunnel mouth to the south side as well?) Maybe my faith is misplaced, but I tend to think that traffic engineers aren't stupid, and they've been working on this route for many years. Why would they miss something so obvious to you?

My guess is since Don Mills station was not planned to be underground from the beginning, it was decided on later , the design for the portal would have been decided on and they never bothered to revisit it. Putting the alignment on the south side until Don Mills would have only made sense with that station under ground as there would need to be a location for the line to switch over to the centre of the road.

 

[GenerationW]

If you attended the Transit City EA public sessions and chatted with the staff on hand, it was very clear that considering alternatives was a minor part of the process

Some would say it wasn't part of the process at all.