Toronto Corus Quay | ?m | 8s | Waterfront Toronto | Diamond Schmitt

Re: Public Process?

I believe my thinking on this matter is prefectly clear and was further backed up with Hume's article, along with the growing realization by many on this forum that Miller is losing creditbility.

andreapalladio if Miller is loyal to the "city" (rolls eyes) then why did he go out of his way to make public comments against the chair and the work of the panel? That was clearly his indirect way of supporting the project, without actually saying it.

As Mayor he should respect the views of thousands of citizens who participated in countless public meetings over the years and not be defending a city agency that is working against a truly arms length public body called the TWRC and he shouldn't be defending a close architect friend against what is suppose to be an arms length design review panel made up of experts.

Louroz
 
Re: public process

Did you not read the preceding posts? Miller did not attack the review panel nor its chair. He simply said that it should be allowed to do its work by following proper procedures. If the review panel's recommendations were to be successfully impugned by the Divisional Court, FM, you'd be the first guy to jump up and rip into Miller for such a fiasco. FM, you're the one with a credibility problem here.
 
Re: public process

but both agencies will be at fault if this ends up the final product not that planners (TWRC) and developers (TEDCO) ever see eye to eye
 
Re: Public Process?

The panel's chair, Toronto architect Bruce Kuwabara, has made no secret of his feelings. But after he spoke to the Star last month about his concerns, he found himself under ATTACK from many quarters.

The article continues on with Miller ATTACKING the chair and the panel's work.

Couldn't be more clear than that imo...LOL

Louroz
 
Re: Public Process?

I'm not sure if you're a bit slow or if you're deliberately trying to mislead. Other than expressing his concerns about providing a fair process, Miller makes no other comments about the panel.
 
Re: Public Process?

borgos:

Miller did not attack the review panel nor its chair

Toronto Star:

The panel's chair, Toronto architect Bruce Kuwabara, has made no secret of his feelings. But after he spoke to the Star last month about his concerns, he found himself under ATTACK from many quarters.

The attack in the article was only coming from one person. Can you guess who?

Louroz
 
Re: Public Process?

I'm with FM on this one. The Miller, Diamond, TEDCO trio were messing with the process last year with an alternate East Bayfront plan to the one TWRC was working with the community on. Why? Everyone knew what the TWRC was doing and their design was already out the door. Why try and push a whole new proposal forward? Now we have the highly secretive "Project Symphony" building specs being made public and it doesn't sit well with the TWRC plans. Who worked on the project: TEDCO and Diamond. Who has authority over TEDCO: the city (aka Miller and his appointees). City Hall, Diamond, and TEDCO all have access to the TWRC plans as does the entire public as it has been a very open process. There is no reason other than a complete disregard of the value of the TWRC process that a proposal such as this could be made. Diamond wouldn't have arbitrarily chosen a building footprint... that would have been TEDCO in combination with the "Project Symphony" client. Who oversees TEDCO... Miller and his appointees.

It is quite clear what the TEDCO bureaucracy desires on the waterfront... to maximize the amount of TEDCO land that does not become public space so it can sell more land. TEDCO is the same bureaucracy that gave long term leases to land key to holding the 2008 olympics right in the middle of the olympic bid if you remember. The olympic bid and land use plan was publicly available and well known at that time just as the TWRC plans are publicly available now. TEDCO needs to be reigned in and told to march to the TWRC drums but Miller and City Hall obviously aren't doing it. Instead TEDCO is the city's own Toronto Port Authority with their own agenda and they would really prefer the TWRC did not exist. The city basically starved the TWRC until they got Miller onto the board in September 2005 and then pushed Robert Fung the TWRC chair out the door in May 2006 despite the fact detailed planning and an open public process had started while he was there. The only things that have occurred secretly and without public input have been those brought forward by the city and TEDCO such as the sudden announcement of Filmport (which really could have been built anywhere in the city since film warehouses where everything is shot indoors without windows don't benefit from nice views of the water), Project Symphony (I can understand keeping financial deals and the client name secret but the building location discussions need not have been), and last minute decisions to build temporary soccer fields which seems like a complete waste since Commissioners Park should really be moving ahead right now with permanent facilities.

What should be happenning in my opinion is that TEDCO and the City Hall should give the TWRC a list of their needs. The TWRC should then take those needs and work with the public to figure out how they can best be met in the overall plan. Instead the TWRC is making an over all plan and City Hall and TEDCO drop their projects onto the map indescriminately. I wish I could be more optimistic about what will be developed on the waterfront but I really don't see a reason to be very optimistic.
 
Interesting article in the post re Project Symphony and a Great West Life tower.

Secret tower speeds along
Peter Kuitenbrouwer, National Post
Published: Wednesday, April 11, 2007
The City of Toronto already cuts the grass in parks, runs the subways and picks up the garbage; now the city plans to become a developer of office towers downtown.

At least, that is the word from Jeff Steiner, head of the Toronto Economic Development Corp., a city agency with a plan to build a 500,000-square-foot office tower for $140-million on Queens Quay Boulevard, just across the Jarvis slip from the Redpath sugar refinery. The building, on city owned land, would be pretty big: slightly less than half the size of Scotia Plaza.

Two things are unusual about this project. First, Mr. Steiner says he has an "offer to lease, which is a binding agreement" with a "multi-billion-dollar company" who will move 1,100 jobs into the ten-storey building -- but won't reveal the tenant's name. Second, the city is the developer.

The financing is driven by the lease," Mr. Steiner explains. "But you need a construction loan, so we will borrow some money from the city to build the project. We have some money, but when there is a very, very large project, you have to borrow." He says the amount he will borrow from Toronto is the subject of a report "that is not yet in the city cycle."

Stuart Green, a spokesman for Mayor David Miller, says the Mayor has no comment on Mr. Steiner's plan to borrow city money for an office tower.

We may get more details on the project today, when TEDCO's team presents the project to a design review panel of architects selected by the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp., at TWRC's new offices at 20 Bay St.

We think of TEDCO mainly as the owner of huge swaths of oil-soaked industrial land in the Port of Toronto, but Mr. Steiner says TEDCO is more.

"TEDCO is a developer," he says. "TEDCO developed the Canpar building." Canpar had been a long-time tenant of TEDCO in a former warehouse on the Queens Quay; to make way for waterfront regeneration, TEDCO built Canpar a new warehouse on city land in Etobicoke. TEDCO recently sold that building to a pension fund for "in excess of $20-million, which is more than we paid, so we made a profit," Mr. Steiner says.

Al Razowski, a senior planner for downtown Toronto, notes that TEDCO is "normally involved in industrial development," but not so much in office buildings; he also notes that lately, private companies are enthused about building commercial towers.

"All of a sudden we're seeing great interest in office towers downtown," Mr. Razowski says. Among them, council recently approved a 26-storey office tower for Great West Life at 18 York St., corner of Bremner Blvd, next to the Rogers Centre.

All of which begs the question, as councillor Doug Holyday of Etobicoke asked yesterday, why doesn't a private developer put up Project Symphony?

"We've borrowed ourselves right into a hole in the ground," Mr. Holyday says. "For us to get into some scheme where we're going to build a building we're hoping we can rent out and make some money ... if this is viable, TEDCO should be able to find a private partner."

Others disagree; downtown councillor Adam Vaughan says, "If the city can attract a tenant and retain the underlying asset, it sounds like a good deal. I wish they could use the same creativity in housing."

Mr. Steiner says TEDCO has to act fast to jump-start the waterfront renaissance. "Timing is the most important thing," he says.

Certainly, Mr. Steiner seems to be in a tremendous hurry: in February he kicked out Cinespace Studios, TEDCO's longtime tenant on the site, and hired architect Jack Diamond, without tender, to design the building. A source close to the architect says, "things are moving very quickly. It's very difficult to design the building and get drawings for approvals at the same time."

Mr. Razowski says that, last he heard, the plan was to speed the project through city hall via site plan approval, which means, "no community meeting, generally no community involvement."

Mr. Steiner says he is already in talks with the city; he wants to have shovels in the ground in July. Hang onto your sailor's caps and your hard hats. We're heading into uncharted waters.
 
Re: Public Process?

couple of bombshells in this article!
wtf???

edit: where is this proposed 26 storey Great West Life building in relation to the Telus building?

2nd edit: so with a 10 storey, 500,000sf office tower on Queens Quay, we are talking two additional office towers?
 
18 York would be across the street where there was a proposal for a hotel by Fairmont. 20 York is the SkyWalk. 16 York is the southwest corner. 10 York is the parking lot wedged between Harbour and Lakeshore.

26 storeys, 637 thousand square foot office building.
 
Re: Public Process?

I was planning to attend the Design Review Panel this morning, but I have to be here in Mississauga for meetings.

TEDCO and Miller should be presenting their "revised" renderings as I am typing this.

Louroz
 
Are you kidding me?

"no community meeting, generally no community involvement."

Are you kidding me????

And the Mayor Office has "no comment"????

Louroz
 
Re: Public Process?

re 18 york 26 storeys,seems short to me barely 400ft.office tower boom continues,definately bring more people to that area south of the tracks.
 
Re: Public Process?

Where did the 18 York proposal came from? There wasn't anything in council documents from 2006 (other than some vague mentioning of anticipating site plan application at the end of that year. I highly doubt it could have missed our eyes if it was approved this year either. Unless they only needed a minor variance?

AoD
 

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