Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I'm not sure about the changes from the previous revision (and am somewhat worried that GPA is taking over tower design), but it sure as heck beats what is there today.
Toronto Cloverdale Mall Redevelopment | 156.9m | 48s | QuadReal | Giannone Petricone
- Thread starter PMT
- Start date
Amare
Senior Member
Although it's in the relative early stages, I absolutely love this plan. Now this is how you come up with a proper master plan: they came up with actual functional park space, a well-integrated and useful central public square with mixed in retail, a road network that isnt just some lazy grid pattern and contains proper relief networks, massing that conforms to the existing neighborhood by tapering density down on the edges of the site while building up as you reach the centre of the site.
Developers *cough* Pinnacle should really study master plans like this, because this is how you come up with something that actually works and is functional. Frankly this is what Etobicoke City Centre needs more of, and I dont know why we're seeing Tower in a Park style buildings fronting a major arterial road.
Developers *cough* Pinnacle should really study master plans like this, because this is how you come up with something that actually works and is functional. Frankly this is what Etobicoke City Centre needs more of, and I dont know why we're seeing Tower in a Park style buildings fronting a major arterial road.
jcam
Active Member
Minor point, but I'm guessing that the access point in the SW corner (that goes under the 427 ramp) has been maintained as a dedicated underground truck/deliveries entrance for the whole site?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The underground garage actually has a series of "underground roads" underneath the roads above that circulate vehicles through the below grade garage. Most access for vehicles will be directly out of that garage entrance from Dundas.
The only reason you would likely want to use a different exit from the garage is to go northbound on the 427, north on East Mall, or east on Dundas, as the exit from that garage access is right out only.
The only reason you would likely want to use a different exit from the garage is to go northbound on the 427, north on East Mall, or east on Dundas, as the exit from that garage access is right out only.
DrillBit
Active Member
This is a good entrance to the area. Come from HWY 427 or Dundas, and turn at traffic lights.
But exit is to Dundas only. One has to use East Mall Crescent intersection to get to HWY 427. It doesn't matter now, but it will with proposed density.
And don't tell me about public transit. It'll take at least 40 years to extend subway there.
JasonParis
Moderator
I don't think Line 2 will ever go here, to be honest. With the TTC now purchasing Obico Yard, an extension will almost certainly run south of here.
Amare
Senior Member
Honestly if the TTC and City were smart, they would plan for having a split terminus between Sherway and Cloverdale. It really doesn't have to be one or the other, as the can run every other train between the 2 terminus stations.
But of course that makes far too much sense and is too logical, so it will never happen. Knowing this city, we'll probably somehow end up with a subway going north to the old Etobicoke Civic Centre-- after it relocates to Etobicoke City Centre.
But of course that makes far too much sense and is too logical, so it will never happen. Knowing this city, we'll probably somehow end up with a subway going north to the old Etobicoke Civic Centre-- after it relocates to Etobicoke City Centre.
Northern Light
Superstar
Why do you see the Obico purchase as material to the direction of mainline track?
Offhand, that sounds like the Greenwood yard should have caused the TTC to run down Greenwood w/Line 2.
I can't see any real advantage vs following the CP corridor as far as they can.
To be clear, I don't see any extension of Line 2 in the very near term.
But when that day comes, and it likely will, you have two criteria.
The first, and most important is to serve origins and destinations.
Of which Sherway Gardens would likely be the top, followed, perhaps, by a redeveloped Cloverdale.
The other criteria is the cheapest available ROW acquisition, be it surface or tunnel.
If you take into account both of the above, the logical routing is CP to Highway 427, then cut south under gov't owned land (or on the surface), then divert to the mall site in a tunnel either way.
Or at least that's my thought at first blush?
Northern Light
Superstar
Amare, I adore your posts, but that last bit is a bit mean, even for you! LOL
Amare
Senior Member
I dont think the purchase of the Obico Yards holds any real relevance as to where the Bloor-Danforth line will be extended, they are 2 matters that dont really depend on one another (with the exception of establishing where the connection will be to the B-D mainline).
From what I understand, extending the B-D line westward (regardless of whether it's to Sherway or Cloverdale) will involve tunneling immediately west of Kipling since there is a parking garage that stands in the way. The tunneling would be pretty tricky since the grades require to dive below would be a bit steep (ie: steeper than the TTC generally builds).
If they were theoretically gong to tunnel under the garage, and dive back up to run the extension along the CP mainline it would add more of a cost and be fairly complicated as the Shorncliffe bridge is another matter they would have to deal with. As a result we would see this extension tunneled all the way through to either Cloverdale or Sherway continuously.
But in any case, an extension to Cloverdale (which I will focus on for the sake of this thread) would be far cheaper than extending it to Sherway just based on the tunneling distance. Which reminds me, I dont see any contigencies put in place in this development for any potential subway extention. Maybe even QuadReal has even given up hope that the extension will ever happen.
Jeez and I thought I was being a bit light with my criticism of this city's dunce leadership.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
The majority of this development is within a 1000m radius of a theoretical Shorncliffe station.
I don't think there would be a station at East Mall. It's too far south of Dundas, and surrounded by industrial uses, including important logistics facilities that don't seem like they are going anywhere and will gain more importance in the coming years.
I don't think there would be a station at East Mall. It's too far south of Dundas, and surrounded by industrial uses, including important logistics facilities that don't seem like they are going anywhere and will gain more importance in the coming years.
jcam
Active Member
Sherway's plans for infill development show a 'Transit Hub' in the NW of the site...so really you could direct a subway there from through Obico or not. The placement is tidy for a streetcar loop of Queensway though.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The TTC actually completed an EA for a subway extension to Sherway in the 1990's and my understanding is that City Staff have been asking developments in the area to accommodate that alignment. That EA places the Sherway subway station where it says "Transit Hub" in that development application.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Not only that, the City is insisting that Concert and Pinnacle make proper accommodations for the line extension in their projects further east on Dundas.