Toronto Clear Spirit | 131.36m | 40s | Cityscape | a—A

Er, syn...
jacobs.jpg

Beware of lightning bolts.
 
Well put, adma, a picture's worth a thousand words. If some question why a formerly disused industrial site that is being revived with new uses is any different from an established low-rise residential neighbourhood ... you provide a very Torontonian clue.

The temptation to apply a uniform formula to everything, to make connections between different parts of town where they don't exist, and not to see differences, is strong - syn's gruesome perspective of "You can make an argument for massive towers anywhere if you want to" being the scariest.
 
Ms. Jacobs would be against highrises in the middle of the Distillery for the same reason she would be against highrises in Riverdale: they are inappropriate in both scale and form. Heck, she even was against the Minto Midtown towers for this reason.

To use Jane Jacobs in defence of point towers in the middle of the Distillery is like using Ghandi in defence of war in Iraq.
 
I wonder how much longer can the 'formerly disused industrial wasteland' argument will be used to justify this development...I guess it doesn't matter what the distillery has become or what the West Don Lands area that partially surrounds it is becoming, we'll just have to sigh and deal with the fact that anything goes now because the buildings sat empty for a few years. These condos offer nothing more than something tall and interesting to look at from the Gardiner, and the distillery district will be the amenity meant to lure people to buy into them.
 
Urban Shocker said:
The temptation to apply a uniform formula to everything, to make connections between different parts of town where they don't exist, and not to see differences, is strong - syn's gruesome perspective of "You can make an argument for massive towers anywhere if you want to" being the scariest.
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I don't apply a uniform formula to everything though - that's why I'd like to see more thoughtful development in the Distillery. I'm just trying to demonstrate that one can make an argument for the kind of development proposed for the Distillery anywhere.

You seem to view the Distillery as nothing more than a group of old, disused buildings in need of redevelopment. I (and others) see them as far more than that.
 
The evolution of the Distillery District site as a cultural attraction and housing community doesn't negate the fact that it will always be a formerly disused industrial site - just as it is a former distillery. Throughout its history buildings have been torn down and replaced - and the hulking, useless, Rack House M will be the next to bite the dust to make way for an attractive condo. Housing for workers existed on the site during the Victorian era, so a fine old tradition continues.

The blockbusting mindset that promotes the destruction of traditional low rise residential neighbourhoods such as Riverdale to erect 50-storey towers is the same one that citizens protested against 30 years ago, though some may now seek to dismiss the significance of citizen involvement.
 
I wouldn't say the blockbusting mindset is the same as 30 years ago. Back then there was no motivation to preserve anything historical--anything modern was considered better than what came before it. There may still be reluctance to preservation, especially from a developer's perspective, but at least it exhists.
 
So contemplating the construction of a 50-storey tower in an existing low-rise neighbourhood such as Riverdale and Logan, merely on the basis that such an argument can be made, would be an even more extreme position nowadays.
 
I would strenuously oppose any tower at Riverdale and Logan if it was going to be built over the lovely little convenience store there.
 
US, i'm not sure i follow you. What's the difference between what you are suggesting and the neighbourhoods that became St.James Town?
I don't see the connection between a working, living neighbourhood being completely replaced, to a dormant disused factory being redeveloped.
 
Sir Novelty: The Greek place that sells the stale chocolate bars? I prefer Alpha at Withrow and Logan - the store on the south west corner of that intersection went through several owners and has been shut for some time - the sign "Anna Corner Store" always makes me think of that bodacious tennis player. There used to be a laundromat just north of Riverdale on the west side of Logan, and a sort of garage place on the east side next to the existing laundromat. Too bad so many of those corner stores have closed down over the years - you can see evidence of them at Logan and Langley ( s.e. corner, it was a real estate office until the mid-1990's ) and at Victor and Logan ( the one on the south west corner is currently being renovated in an interesting way - check it out - and the one on the n.e. corner has been residential for ages ).

mysteryman: You say that the mindset and motivation of developers has moderated since the "blockbusting" 1960's. So it follows, surely, that it would be an even more extreme position to hold now.
 
I completely agree with US, and the irony here is that his approach is actually *more* sympathetic and *more respectiful* to the notion of a Distillery 'district', than is that of the 'purists' around here. I mean, how far should the preservation argument be taken? Are they advocating that the Distillery be maintained as a museum? Should we recreate the distillery complex in the style of a Black Creek Pioneer Village? My sense is no. The buildings stand a far better chance being readapted within the heart of a new urban development. This will truly make a group of once-derelict old buildings feel like a district, and not like an isolated museum or tourist trap. Not that there's anything wrong with musuems or tourist traps - they both have their place- but the vision for the Distillery is bigger. The Distillery buildings provide the impetus for the development of a new Toronto neighbourhood in an area that until recently was nothing but a wasteland of abandoned buildings in the midst of brown fields and urban blight. Faux victorians or low rise/low density in-fill would be mundane and uninspired here, where as with the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood, the historic buildings do not have to exist in a vacuum. The urban feel of architectural diversity adds to the interest of the streetscapes and makes them exciting and dynamic places to be, and is far more interesting than creating a one-dimensional neighbourhood - like City Place - or a one-dimensional district that takes its cue from an isolated grouping of buildings, no matter how special or attractive.
 
I mean, how far should the preservation argument be taken? Are they advocating that the Distillery be maintained as a museum? Should we recreate the distillery complex in the style of a Black Creek Pioneer Village?
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Did anyone suggest such a thing? I think not; so why bring it up?

The Distillery buildings provide the impetus for the development of a new Toronto neighbourhood in an area that until recently was nothing but a wasteland of abandoned buildings in the midst of brown fields and urban blight.
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Actually, from my point of view the brownfields are the impetus for development (as in the waterfront redevelopment efforts). The Distillery was already there. There were already a number of condos built in the area.

Faux victorians or low rise/low density in-fill would be mundane and uninspired here
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How do you know this? One must assume potential outcomes largely depend on the specifics of an actual plans.
 
Tewder said:
Faux victorians or low rise/low density in-fill would be mundane and uninspired here, where as with the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood, the historic buildings do not have to exist in a vacuum. The urban feel of architectural diversity adds to the interest of the streetscapes and makes them exciting and dynamic places to be, and is far more interesting than creating a one-dimensional neighbourhood - like City Place - or a one-dimensional district that takes its cue from an isolated grouping of buildings, no matter how special or attractive.
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Ok, I'd love to know why low-rise, or more likely mid-rise, development would be mundane and uninspired.
 
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