Toronto CIBC SQUARE | 241.39m | 50s | Hines | WilkinsonEyre

  • Thread starter Suicidal Gingerbread Man
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Your forecast seems highly optimistic. 16 York appears to have been shelved in favour of 156 Front. Oxford has been completely silent since the release of flashy renderings during the casino debate all the while others aggressively push to get their towers approved. I understand why people cling to it but, it's time to move on until the next update.

One of 45 Bay, Union Plaza and 156 Front will break ground in the next 18 months.

others to watch are BA3 and the Well office tower followed by Brookfield Place 3 and 16 York.
 
I have to agree, Oxford has it's hands full with Hudson Yards - if they had any serious intentions here in Toronto they would have / should have made some indication. To have waited until 156 Front, Union Centre and 45 Bay came online is either a huge miscalculation or a strong indication the project is well down the road. I don't think this one will activate anytime soon.
 
maestro said:
Your forecast seems highly optimistic. 16 York appears to have been shelved in favour of 156 Front. Oxford has been completely silent since the release of flashy renderings during the casino debate all the while others aggressively push to get their towers approved. I understand why people cling to it but, it's time to move on until the next update.

One of 45 Bay, Union Plaza and 156 Front will break ground in the next 18 months.

others to watch are BA3 and the Well office tower followed by Brookfield Place 3 and 16 York.
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Really what are you basing this on ? i.e. the next 18 months ... that's a pretty hard thing for anyone to forecast without any tenants lined up.
 
DarkSideDenizen said:
Yes! Everything with the AABC is happening very quickly now, in part due to the recent influx of new project announcements, particularly in Toronto. I just hope they can get it straightened out before the city makes another bid for the Olympics.
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The Olympics. I hope we never see the light of day on that bid. A congestion nightmare, a security nightmare. I still think of the G20. I never would have believed that in Canada, in Toronto, our police forces & government would have acted so disgustingly. No one was held accountable. the Premier, Mayor, Blair or the RMCP. Not one. Disgusting.
 
maestro said:
Your forecast seems highly optimistic. 16 York appears to have been shelved in favour of 156 Front. Oxford has been completely silent since the release of flashy renderings during the casino debate all the while others aggressively push to get their towers approved. I understand why people cling to it but, it's time to move on until the next update.

One of 45 Bay, Union Plaza and 156 Front will break ground in the next 18 months.

others to watch are BA3 and the Well office tower followed by Brookfield Place 3 and 16 York.
Click to expand...

Oxford owns 161 Bay (South tower of Brookfield Place) along with for all intents & purposes 50% of the retail space while Brookfield owns 181 Bay. Oxford would have to give Brookfield permission to build the 3rd tower on Front St. and I can tell you, barring a large cheque being walked across the street to the pension fund, that will never ever happen.

Oxford might be silent on their MTCC space in public but there has been a lot of work done in the back ground. I doubt BA North happens anytime soon, mostly for internal reasons relating to corp structure.

AP is a little stretched with the Well, the Spadina developments, they just bought the old backpackers hostel at King & Spadina as a land amalgamation etc. Remember they are a REIT and development is a significant cash drag which hurts unit price...

Ivanhoe (and Menkes) are always the last to jump on the good thing boat, making it sink. I can see 45 Bay going forward and killing the market along with Menkes development to the south of them. Still in 15+ years from now Union Station book-ends of 45 Bay and the Oxford MTCC site would be amazing with acres of park over the tracks.
 
E.B. said:
The Olympics. I hope we never see the light of day on that bid. A congestion nightmare, a security nightmare. I still think of the G20. I never would have believed that in Canada, in Toronto, our police forces & government would have acted so disgustingly. No one was held accountable. the Premier, Mayor, Blair or the RMCP. Not one. Disgusting.
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And not the black bloc nor the hooligans, nor the hundreds of losers planning to but failing to cause havoc....none of them were held accountable. A perfect example was that idiot who had legally changed his name to Mr. Nobody.
 
While I agree that we probably cannot absorb all this extra office space in next few years, I would say that 45 Bay is probably well placed to move ahead quite fast (at least THAT building of the 'complex') as it will deal with the long-term Metrolinx aim of consolidating all bus service at or near Union.
 
DSC said:
While I agree that we probably cannot absorb all this extra office space in next few years, I would say that 45 Bay is probably well placed to move ahead quite fast (at least THAT building of the 'complex') as it will deal with the long-term Metrolinx aim of consolidating all bus service at or near Union.
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I agree. Consolidating bus service in a new terminal at 45 Bay is a high priority for the various bus operators involved, and maxcity says that the 45 Bay tower will be built on spec, so there will be no delays waiting for a big tenant. Construction could maybe start as soon as the various approvals and permits are issued. Since the federal government, and the provincial government through GO Transit, are apparently partnering with Ivanhoe in this project in the expectation of a big payoff, I expect that they will be pressuring Ivanhoe (and the City?) for as rapid completion of the later phases as is practicable. Maxcity has stated 2022 for the north tower, that's only eight years away.
 
Do we have a confirmed height on this?

Also they seem to be proposing multiple towers again, any chance they remove a couple of buildings and increase height like M+G and hopefully One Yonge?
 
ChristopherC said:
Do we have a confirmed height on this?

Also they seem to be proposing multiple towers again, any chance they remove a couple of buildings and increase height like M+G and hopefully One Yonge?
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They could get rid of the third tower on top of the Dominion building, and I would not mind at all, but the land the Dominion building is sitting on apparently represents the federal government's stake in the project (and any profit it generates). I would think that Ivanhoe wants the federal government on their side with this project, so they would be unlikely to cancel the third tower.
 
taal said:
Really what are you basing this on ? i.e. the next 18 months ... that's a pretty hard thing for anyone to forecast without any tenants lined up.
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Basing it on a hunch. The tower proposals are too similar with a strong indiction to get them construction ready as soon as possible for there not to be someone looking to anchor a marquee tower.
 
Brookfield Place 3 occupies Brookfield owned 22 Front which is completely independant of Brookfield and cantilevers over the loading dock entrance. It would be extremely shortsighted to sell Oxford CCT and, at the same time, allow for future compensation for the construction of BP3.

The Well is being development by a team made up of two reits and a major residential developers. Reits are highly aggressive in buying selling and developing property. Sitting on property just doesn't serve them well.

Not aware of any Menkes office in the planning stage. They may have a stake in One York but, it certainly not a big one.
 
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Actually I am recanting my earlier post. After speaking with some colleagues recently from both Europe and China I was quite interested to hear there is a "vibe" in the international community about Toronto and the growth here etc.

They spoke of other firms that they were aware of talking about checking it out. It got me thinking, I'm sure the developers in question here are privy to more of this "chatter" than any of us and this may well be the reason so many proposals are coming together now.

May be the beginning of bigger things.
 
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