Toronto CIBC SQUARE | 241.39m | 50s | Hines | WilkinsonEyre

[maestro]

Very little of the space vacated by CIBC will be AAA.

CCW only has two floors belonging to CIBC (4th and 56th), CCN is being vacated, but it's not cutting edge space (really a dump in there). CCS/CCE are also not the type of space banks would look for. There will be a few floors vacated from the Canada Trust Tower, but again, not enough contiguous space for banks.

Other CIBC locations are class B space in the downtown core.. I guess aside from Atrium on Bay, but that might put a stop to their ugly expansion plans.

They don't just lease AAA. I agree on CCN. I don't agree on CCS/CCE plus the cavernous basement not being attractive for other banks. There's Bell Trinity Square on top of Atrium on Bay as well. (of course, not all this space will be vacated)

 

[Filip]

They don't just lease AAA. I agree on CCN. I don't agree on CCS/CCE plus the cavernous basement not being attractive for other banks. There's Bell Trinity Square on top of Atrium on Bay as well. (of course, not all this space will be vacated)

Yes, forgot about Bell Trinity - I see that site redeveloped one day. Either way, smaller tenants are really driving the commercial real estate market right now. They would love the small chunks of space being vacated by CIBC. Then there's egos at play.. The banking industry has the biggest egos. They'll want a new build and AAA property.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What about BCE 3? Nothing has been said about it for years but presumably the site is still super desirable given the location?

AoD

 

[ADRM]

Then there's egos at play.. The banking industry has the biggest egos. They'll want a new build and AAA property.

There's also a non-ego-driven component to the search for higher-grade office space for the banks, and that talent attraction. Each of the big banks competes for more or less the same pool of talent and compensation is fairly similar across the banks, so they're always looking for a leg up -- a nice, new, fancy office tower with a built-in park on top of a bus terminal close to Union Station (etc., etc.) was obviously important to CIBC, and those are the kind of quality-of-life-at-work things that bank employees (or potential employees) talk about among each other.

 

[Filip]

What about BCE 3? Nothing has been said about it for years but presumably the site is still super desirable given the location?

AoD

Conveniently, the building standing in the way of BCE III is all CIBC, and all being relocated to Bay Park.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Conveniently, the building standing in the way of BCE III is all CIBC, and all being relocated to Bay Park.

Can we have Calatrava for that please (never going to happen, but it would have been nice).

AoD

 

[maestro]

Yes, forgot about Bell Trinity - I see that site redeveloped one day. Either way, smaller tenants are really driving the commercial real estate market right now. They would love the small chunks of space being vacated by CIBC. Then there's egos at play.. The banking industry has the biggest egos. They'll want a new build and AAA property.

I don't agree. The banks want their logo on a quality well positioned space but, they have been incredibly cheap about it. AAA? Tell that to all the IT guys crammed into dungeoness former vaults.

CIBC is the first to somewhat break that mold. No guarrantee others will follow suit.

 

[Filip]

I don't agree. The banks want their logo on a quality well positioned space but, they have been incredibly cheap about it. AAA? Tell that to all the IT guys crammed into dungeoness former vaults.

LOL did you work at BMO's B2 level (colloquially known as the meat market?)

If the banks choose to follow CIBC, then all those IT guys will be crammed in a nice tower instead of a basement. Let's see what happens in the coming years.

 

[maestro]

I have only visited. It's a helluva lot nicer than Commerce court's dungeon.

Hope they follow suit. It would be awesome. CIBC hasn't been much competition for recruiting. They have basically been the AAA farm team for the major league banks.

 

[Filip]

Can we have Calatrava for that please (never going to happen, but it would have been nice).

AoD

Toronto developers focus on one building per cycle.

In this cycle (2017-2020) you have:
CF: 16 York
Hines/Ivanhoe Cambridge: Bay Park Centre
Allied: The Well
Brookfield: BA North

I don't see Union Centre or 160 Front proceeding in this cycle. Additionally, now that Oxford is coming off the EY tower, they might look at 30 Bay instead of Oxford Place. Look at Oxford making the next splashy announcement.

 

[Filip]

I have only visited. It's a helluva lot nicer than Commerce court's dungeon.

Hope they follow suit. It would be awesome. CIBC hasn't been much competition for recruiting. They have basically been the AAA farm team for the major league banks.

I have never been to Commerce Court's dungeon, but now I am curious.

And yup regarding the second point.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't see Union Centre or 160 Front proceeding in this cycle. Additionally, now that Oxford is coming off the EY tower, they might look at 30 Bay instead of Oxford Place. Look at Oxford making the next splashy announcement.

And then you have this:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...s-foster-partners.16439/page-105#post-1203279

2 and 6 years is just slightly off the timeframe we're talking about?

AoD

 

[maestro]

You also have First Gulf's submission. It would be pretty impressive to see a bank consolidate there and see a half dozen or more towers go up at the same time.

 

[maestro]

I have never been to Commerce Court's dungeon, but now I am curious.

And yup regarding the second point.

beige everything

 

[Edward Skira]

Laying the foundation for the thousands of updates to come in the next few years.