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Toronto/Chicago comparisons

This was an amazing post: I've never been to Chicago but reading this I feel I've seen its soul

Torontovibe said:
I know this isn't a Chicago VS. Toronto thread but as someone who has visited almost all areas of Chicago and have friends who live there, you guys are overlooking some very important things by comparison. (that favour Toronto)

If you walk all over Chicago (not just The Miracle Mile & Old Town) you will quickly realize Toronto has much more lively stree


How many of you guys have walked south of The Loop or west of the river? I have and I can tell you, that you will see almost nobody when you go south of Shedd Aquarium. Have you guys been to their Greek town? It's full of parking lots and almost empty, day and night. Maybe that's why they filmed "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" in Toronto. Walk west of there and you will see nothing except for some older apartment buildings. (oh, and Oprah's studio) Few people walk in this area. Actually, there is only one direction you can walk, that is interesting and lively, and that's north of The Loop. (unlike Toronto, where you'll find interesting and lively areas in ALL directions from Bay & King) Hell, even Ward's Island is interesting.

Chicago goes all out maintaining Michigan Avenue but have you seen Martian Luther King Street? South Chicago has MANY abandoned buildings and vacant lots. I saw it with my own eyes and it actually looks pretty scary. Have you seen the Latino area, I think it's called Pilsner or something like that? It's a whole different world from Old Town or Lincoln Park. You can buy a condo in South Chicago for 50,000 dollars. Sounds great, until you discover what the murder/crime rate is.

Do you guys know any black folk in Chicago? Ask them if they go to bars in Boys-town. I don't want to start anything racial here but my black friend would not go to any gay bars with me. He told me he goes to all black gay clubs because he wouldn't feel comfortable in a "white club". I wont get into the conversations I've had with white Chicagoans because it would just cause grief but I can tell you I have never heard white people in Toronto say the things I've heard from men in Chicago. (racist shit)

Do you guys know over 50% of that state's governors are in jail for corruption? Do you guys know about the ties with organized crime and the Chicago unions? And as for the great Chicago waterfront, well, it's separated from the city by a highway. Yep, cars whizzing right beside the beach. Yeah and we have the Gardiner, I know. (though not nearly as close and not at street level) I actually think Toronto's waterfront is more interesting to explore. It's a real neighbourhood, not just parkland, although we have lots of that too. With Chicago's waterfront, you can see it all laid out before you. With Toronto's, you need to walk to explore all it's Quays and hidden places. (Ireland Park) We also look out onto a green Island, as well as a huge lake, just east and west of downtown. We have towering bluffs and huge nature preserves. It might be just me but I really do find Toronto to be a better city. I find it much more interesting to explore. Sure, they have Milenium Park and that great amphitheatre but don't discount the beauty og Ontario Place. (I love those futuristic floating pods & Imax Theatre)

You will not find any quirky, eccentric areas like Kensington Market or it's unconventional looking people. I never see non-conformists when I go to Chicago. It's just not a Mid-Western thing. Do they have anything as beachy or cool as The Beaches? (I've never seen it) Ethnic Chicago has nothing on Toronto. Go to Little Italy, Greek-town or Polish Chicago and it's nothing like what we have here. Do you see the open, lively, out-door restaurants we have in Little Italy or Greek Town? Nope! Their Chinatown is a lot cleaner and tourist friendly than what we have but our Chinatown (Chinatowns) is much bigger and more for real Chinese. (few if any meat or fruit stores in Chicago's Chinatown) It's mainly restaurants for tourists. I do like all the Asian monumenta and art they have. Toronto's ethnic areas are larger, more diverse, more interesting and REAL! They are not created for the sake of tourists. You can find many different ethnic restaurants in ALL directions in Toronto. You definitely cannot say that in Chicago. (unless you call pizza joints and western Chinese food real ethnic food)

If one is black or Latino, can you live in any area you choose, in Chicago? Read a bit about Chicago's racial history before you answer that question and speak to a few non-white people. Their responses might surprise you. You may legally live where you please but the neighbours and real estate agents might have something to say about that. Have you guys taken a ride on the El? Do you think having a noisy, dusty, run-down elevated train and tracks, running through parts of the city, is a good thing? I don't and I'll take Toronto's crowed, maligned subways over Chicago any day. Chicago's subway stations are basically just outdoor platforms without walls. On cold winter days, you do not want to be there. I was told that in Chicago, only "the riff-raff" ride the subway.

Am I anti-Chicago? Actually, I rather like Chicago. Unlike some tourists, when I go to visit a city, I go to see the real city. That means I go to all areas and meet people of all backgrounds. I talk to people because I'm curious to see what their lives are like. Chicago does some things really well. They put great effort into their upscale areas, like The Miracle Mile. Milenium Park and their beaches are really nice. Of course, the architecture and their historic buildings are head and shoulders above Toronto. I'd trade our Ripley's aquarium for the Shedd any day. I guess that tells you how much confidence I have in Ripley's. I like Chicago's waterfront but I actually prefer Toronto's. I just like the much more diverse landscapes we have here, including The Islands and their eccentric neighbourhoods. You will see a lot more eccentricity all over Toronto, than you will in Chicago. Chicago kicks our ass in Museums and it's wonderful art gallery but I still think Toronto has a better cultural scene.

Both cities are great cities but for the qualities I value most, I prefer Toronto and I really see Toronto as having a brighter future. This city is growing and changing so fast, nobody knows what this city might eventually become. That's what makes coming to Urban Toronto so interesting. Every month brings new developments we never dreamed possible. Who here thought Dundas & Jarvis would turn into a huge condo this soon? Toronto is growing in ALL directions and it's wonderful to see. Look what's happening to Regent Park and compare that to what Chicago is doing with Cabrini Greene. That tells you a lot about Toronto, its people and where this city is heading.

I don't envy Chicago at all. (OK, maybe the architecture a little lol) But when push comes to shove, there is no other city I'd rather call home. The future is ours.
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Great post, Torontovibe!

Tourists definitely prefer Chicago, but when it comes to the entire city, aside from 1 or 2 "nice" streets, Toronto is on an entirely different level.
 
ahmad.m.atiya said:
Great post, Torontovibe!

Tourists definitely prefer Chicago, but when it comes to the entire city, aside from 1 or 2 "nice" streets, Toronto is on an entirely different level.
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That's because Chicago goes for the WOW factor, while Toronto just kind of develops organically. If you count how many interesting, lively neighbourhoods there are to explore here and compare it with Chicago, you will see a huge difference. Also Toronto seems to have much more in terms of independent stores. American cities (including NYC and Chicago) seem to have mostly chain stores, while in Toronto, you still see a lot of non-chin retail stores. I don't know the stats but my guess is Toronto has a lot more independant stores, for now. (which I consider a good thing)
 
Having just come back from Toronto and don't get me wrong I love Toronto, I would say that if one thing the city has to work on is the beautification of the streets. It needs to work on fixing those sidewalks. They are really in bad shape guys!!!! The neighborhoods r awesome but yonge street is just not pleasant to walk on and it is THE street that tourists walk on when they visit Toronto.
 
vatche said:
Having just come back from Toronto and don't get me wrong I love Toronto, I would say that if one thing the city has to work on is the beautification of the streets. It needs to work on fixing those sidewalks. They are really in bad shape guys!!!! The neighborhoods r awesome but yonge street is just not pleasant to walk on and it is THE street that tourists walk on when they visit Toronto.
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Being there and knowing many people your comment is very much spot on. And Torontovibe summed it up well. Personally Chicago is a great place to visit for the average tourist, much better so then Toronto. A typical tourists, who's only around for 3/4 days isn't looking to explore all the neighborhoods, rather they'll spend there time in a rather concentrated area i.e. downtown Chicago. Which is amazing for the reasons you cite.

So I'm completely in the camp that for a typical tourist Chicago is a better destination. Living in a city is a by far and large different story and again only in my opinion Toronto wins for many many reasons.

You're point about Yonge is a good one, I love Yonge but if this is the main street tourists experience (which it really shouldn't be, but due to be centrally located it is) it's the face of Toronto, and it's not a great one in some areas.

I'll tell you something about Yonge, try going north of Bloor ... all the way up to Lawrence, you'll have a completely different opinion! The streets are very clean / tons of interesting stores. This whole stretch if very high end though that's likely the main contributor to that. But the only stretch of Yonge that is run down, is from Welesly to Dundas or so - fumy as this is the *face* of Toronto. Having said that, if you live in Toronto, you know about Yonge north of Bloor and the other areas, so suddently having a quirky and little rundown stretch of Yonge is nice for a change!

See these little things are why living / and visting are so different. So many people I know come to Toronto, walk north from dundas square and get the feeling that Toronto is vibrant but a little run down / low end.
 
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I tell u one thing taal!! Whenever I tell people here in Montreal that I'm going to toronto they say ooo y??? What's in Toronto I don't really like it but whenever I tell people I'm going to Chicago they say wow I looove Chicago. At first I thought it was the old Montreal vs t. O. Thing but then I started hearing it from new immigrants who have travelled around and they tell me oh we didn't like Toronto that much. Do u know y because I bet u they walked up and down yonge and around the waterfront. It just is not impressive. And I have been north yonge it is essay nicer.
 
vatche said:
Having just come back from Toronto and don't get me wrong I love Toronto, I would say that if one thing the city has to work on is the beautification of the streets. It needs to work on fixing those sidewalks. They are really in bad shape guys!!!! The neighborhoods r awesome but yonge street is just not pleasant to walk on and it is THE street that tourists walk on when they visit Toronto.
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Civic pride in Toronto stops north of Lawrence. The recent elections here should illustrate that vividly for readers of this thread (off topic though this may be). Surburan voters (Ford voters) enjoyed politicking with the all-too-few beautification initiatives such as Bloor, the waterfront, NP square, as examples of money-wasting. Keep that in mind. The situation sucks.
 
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Even more off topic but you guys mentioned Chicago first. I'll give you my take on that place. My squeeze and I travelled there last autumn, and, while we went away impressed, we also found that the overall impression was a tad cold.

Best of: the shops on Michigan, the great plantings, and those amazing fountains in Millenium Square ( and no wussy Eaton Centrish thing sucking shoppers indoors, in yet a colder city ).

Second best of: The views westward from Wacker and Michigan, where the older skyscrapers are mixed in with some very good recent work spanning the 60s through the 00s.

Worst of: Let's say you are standing outside Orchestra Hall on Michigan Ave. There is a very unfortunate mishmash of pomo and po-pomo in the view north and east. The overall result is not pretty, I think I called it a shouting contest, a tad cold to behold. Many locals were saying the same thing about that particular view. I much preferred the views west of Wacker/Michingan, along the river. A really great mash-up.

FYI, Chicago has an inferiority complex too. It's all about New York. And frankly, we think we won't return to Chicago. If we are going to spend travel $, we will spend those $ in Manhattan. The difference is sex appeal; New York has it, Chicago doesn't have it. There is something about the midwest thing that just ain't sexy.

The locals are big, they all wear blue jeans ... but man, are they ever nice people.
 
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vatche said:
I tell u one thing taal!! Whenever I tell people here in Montreal that I'm going to toronto they say ooo y??? What's in Toronto I don't really like it but whenever I tell people I'm going to Chicago they say wow I looove Chicago. At first I thought it was the old Montreal vs t. O. Thing but then I started hearing it from new immigrants who have travelled around and they tell me oh we didn't like Toronto that much. Do u know y because I bet u they walked up and down yonge and around the waterfront. It just is not impressive. And I have been north yonge it is essay nicer.
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Well simply put it's not as 'impressive' I think I made this point about, Toronto don't do too many things grand. As a collection of parts it's great, moreover, some of the central area 'core' to Toronto areas (i.e. Yonge) would likely not look impressive to the average tourist. Again though, walk on Yonge north of Bloor for many KM and they would be ...

The waterfront comment is week. The small section of waterfront we have is great (the boardwalk south of Queens Quay) - moreover continue on Queens Quay into the music park area and you'll hit some of the nicest parks in Toronto ... Chicago's waterfront did little to impress me, I should make this clear now ... not saying Toronto is any better, they happen to have a lot of civic amenities on the waterfront such as museums and that's one of the differences, but other then that I don't think it's better. Moreover there are no great neighborhoods on the waterfront. Someone made a comment above that the waterfront Toronto plans don't compare to Chicago when complete ? ... you'd kidding me, clearly you've never seen them (whomever the person was). If the argument is there will not be as many great museams or the like, then they're right. But in terms of great mixed used neighbourhoods there's huge potential. Just check out the great parks on the east side already built as part of this.

But here's another plus for a tourist, museams in Chicago are great ... Toronto's are as well but Chicago just has so many more ...
 
Thanks Torontovibe for bringing some common sense to this Chicago vs. Toronto debate. I love Chicago, but there's a lot more thank Michigan Ave, Milleniun Park, and their skyscrapers (for good and bad).
 
The original debate was not intended to take into account economic and social aspects, it was supposed to be based on building and architecture. If we were looking at the entire picture, yes Toronto wins. As a black male I can tell you I was jocked to see the amount of segregation and poverty that was prevalent throughout the city of Chicago. Some parts looked like scenes from a developing country. Jane and Finch or Malvern is nothing compared to South Chicago

That being said I still stand by my original comments that Toronto needs to step it up in terms of the quality of the building their erecting especially the ones near the water front and in the suburbs.

Trump Toronto was a missed opportunity I would have liked to see it taller so it didn’t hide behind the Scotia Building, and I would have preferred a different type of glass, not the ocean coloured one which is so common in Toronto nowadays.

Hopefully the proposal for Ontario Place will have a wow factor.
 
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