Toronto Chelsea Green (was 33 Gerrard) | 297.25m | 90s | Great Eagle | a—A

Stupidandshallow said:
I think NIMBYism coupled with politics are what's holding back the city from this sort of more sustainable growth.
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Principled opposition isn't nimbyism though. Nimbyism is inherently self-interested. I do believe there is nimbyism in Toronto, don't get me wrong, just that it's not necessarily what is driving any concerns for our built form.

ksun said:
Toronto is not an unchanging concept.
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... says the guy who's favourite city is Paris! Try and suggest an urban change there and see where it gets you (do they still have the guillotine?)!

Toronto isn't a disposable concept either, prey to the whims of development geeks or the swings of urban trends. City Building takes vision, time and investment. Toronto will never satisfy your sense of urban, clearly, because unless it's a Paris-type of on-the-nose heritage form nothing other than a hyper-dense Asian boomburg will.
 
Tewder said:
Principled opposition isn't nimbyism though. Nimbyism is inherently self-interested. I do believe there is nimbyism in Toronto, don't get me wrong, just that it's not necessarily what is driving any concerns for our built form.
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I beg to differ a little on that front, particularly in regards to these stable neighbourhoods:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/05/25/midtowners-battle-the-rise-of-the-midrise.html
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...pers-over-mid-rise-condo-projects-in-the-city

Built form is very, very much front and centre of it all.

AoD
 
Or housing a couple and a dog, with a nanny flat for their dad, who's suffering early dementia. Or a semi that's been converted, illegally or not, for a basement apartment. There's a lot of that going on, too.
 
Lenser said:
Or housing a couple and a dog, with a nanny flat for their dad, who's suffering early dementia. Or a semi that's been converted, illegally or not, for a basement apartment. There's a lot of that going on, too.
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Some, but I am fairly certain the data would favour more the picture I've illustrated. The trouble/resistance with building nanny flats and laneway housing is legion.

AoD
 
ksun said:
yet people say, "we love our two story houses!".
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I think you're reading too much into this strawman. See below.

ksun said:
Toronto is not an unchanging concept. And Toronto today is definitely not the same one in the 1990s. So what does it mean let Toronto be just Toronto? Other cities are building subways and making streets more pedestrian friendly, does that mean if we do the same, we are aspiring to be a second rate other city? What's wrong with learning from the best? How can we become another Barcelona or Paris? We can't even if we do everything toward that goal.
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Look who's talking! You accuse others of being stuck in the past, while you're firmly entrenched in the present. Did you realize the city is actively pursuing avenue intensification and "up-zoning" for the very same purposes you keep suggesting over and over?

Does this sentiment sound familiar? Hmm? https://twitter.com/jen_keesmaat/status/702568523474800640

It's called the Avenues and Mid-Rise Buildings Study and it involves changes to land-use policy that fast-track midrise development all over the city's major avenues. Google the "Secondary Plan" for any of the streets that you like to trash (Bathurst) as though reality is static and unchanging and you'll see the city has solid plans for increasing density and addressing the challenges of our urban fabric.

Also, you're not the first person to draw comparisons between Toronto and Barcelona or Paris. Here's an insightful article that you might learn something from: http://torontoist.com/2015/06/public-works-what-toronto-can-learn-from-barcelona/

And here: http://spacing.ca/toronto/2008/01/26/urban-fabricform-comparison/
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Some, but I am fairly certain the data would favour more the picture I've illustrated. The trouble/resistance with building nanny flats and laneway housing is legion.

AoD
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Yes, but if you think a whole lot of under-the-table renovations and disgruntled bypassing of city bureaucracy aren't going on, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
 
Since Paris was mentioned several times in this thread, I will also mention that I drove around much of its inner peripherique this morning. It is true that the inner arrondissements are spectactacular, but the suburbs, where so many live and work, are not. An equivalent drive around the 401-427-DVP etc would be much more impressive.
 
67Cup said:
Since Paris was mentioned several times in this thread, I will also mention that I drove around much of its inner peripherique this morning. It is true that the inner arrondissements are spectactacular, but the suburbs, where so many live and work, are not. An equivalent drive around the 401-427-DVP etc would be much more impressive.
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But we are comparing Toronto with Paris, not York Region with Vitry-sur-Seine. Looking for such excuses does no good. In addition, Mississauga and Vaughan etc look gross with their wide roads and all the double garage facing the streets like a parade. Nothing is worse than that kind of build form. And I am not sure whether it is a good thing that Toronto's middle and upper class would rather live in the outskirts rather in central city.
 
67Cup said:
Since Paris was mentioned several times in this thread, I will also mention that I drove around much of its inner peripherique this morning. It is true that the inner arrondissements are spectactacular, but the suburbs, where so many live and work, are not. An equivalent drive around the 401-427-DVP etc would be much more impressive.
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Rich Terfry once said of Paris that it at its centre are the most beautiful areas in the world, surrounded by some of the least beautiful spaces in the world.
 
FMCS said:
Actually '67Cup' mentioned 401-407-DVP so that is not York Region or Mississauga....it's Toronto.
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I think you're missing his point. Paris does has some nice suburbs outside the périphérique too, by the way. Certainly in the western suburbs towards the Chevreuse.
 
So does Toronto; we've got lots of lovely suburbs—which aren't necessarily exciting places to live, but are great if you want to mow a lawn, and they can be found on either side of the 400-series highways in various spots. Not acknowledging that is just cherry-picking.

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