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Please read in article right. It does not say the project is on hold. Given the recession things are taking a little longer than expected.
 
grey said:
Haha! :) You're right! Ford sure provides a lot of dirt! ;) :D

It does relate to the Portlands fiasco in that it's more clumsy and inept handling of City finances and land. Hehe! :D
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Sure - but don't you find it a little rich that it's now being used to discredit Rob Ford when just a few months ago, the same people weren't willing to give him any credit for the project to begin with? Suzan Hall and Kyle Rae were very big players in that deal, but it's all Rob's fault now, apparently.

It's also not exactly apples to apples, since the major developer was US based and very hard hit during the financial meltdown that none of the players would have seen coming years before when they were putting the deal together. The Portlands are happening at a different time in terms of global finances and the stability of the Canadian marketplace is attracting investors from different parts of the world, like the UK and Australia apparently.

I've been trying to be a little more rational about this whole thing and since I don't vote in Toronto and have no personal attachment to any of the players, I don't know if that's allowed me to see it through a better lens or a worse one - depends on your own predilection, I guess. If Ford can tip-toe their way through this unlock some of the potential down there and get development going - as well as improve the financial standing of the city - I think it has to be considered. I do think a lot of the opposition is simply concern for doing it right considering the prominence of the area involved, but a lot of it is being co-opted by partisan opposition to anything Ford does and the understanding that if he actually pulls some or all of this off successfully, it will greatly mitigate their ability to call him a city killing, philistine failure of a mayor. That's what they're pining for and would rather see nothing done that see Ford succeed at anything.
 
I do think a lot of the opposition is simply concern for doing it right considering the prominence of the area involved, but a lot of it is being co-opted by partisan opposition to anything Ford does and the understanding that if he actually pulls some or all of this off successfully, it will greatly mitigate their ability to call him a city killing, philistine failure of a mayor. That's what they're pining for and would rather see nothing done that see Ford succeed at anything.
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Of course there is concern for doing this properly. Building a mall will suck street-level retail out of the area. Building a stadium will demand a huge area for parking. The promise of doing this all in six years is not only unrealistic, its stupid. Doing it as a back-room plan with zero public consultation underscores the fact that the Fords not only don't value public input, they simply don't want it. This isn't their waterfront; it belongs to the people. It was never intended to be a mere tourist pit-stop, but a piece of the city and a legacy for all Torontonians to enjoy. There is to be, in the existing plan, development of much of the land. The potential will be "unlocked." There is simply no need to rush in with unrealistic promises and silly ideas. Ultimately, the Fords would be quite happy with a generic big box mall, and given the unreality of building any large indoor mall in the next six years, a big fat suburban big-box mall is what the Ford boys will likely deliver here. What a great legacy that will be!
 
Marko said:
That's what they're pining for and would rather see nothing done that see Ford succeed at anything.
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You hit the nail in the head...the same can also be said for many individuals on this forum that basically would have a conniption if many of Ford's goals where to be acomplished.. so sad, i feel fo them.
 
Marko, I'm not sure I agree with the second half of your position. The concern with the portlands (not the discussion topic here) is that the Fords are trying to take over an existing agreed on process. There is plenty of opportunity for them to champion this or that element or move to expediate the process within the existing framework of Portlands developement. Rob or Doug could champion a giant ferriswheel or work to develop the portlands faster by working together with waterfront Toronto.

Instead they are doing what seems like the only thing they know how do do, namely, destroying the work of other men and raising the costs of doing things. They may be sincere in their convictions (although anyone considering themselves conservative minded would have to find the latter bit at least a little bit concerning); However, the irrationality of the exercise leads one to speculate if their motives are not personal or worse in nature.
 
personally, I believe many of his ideas, the stadium, the ferris wheel, even the mall, would suit the CNE grounds better... That aside I dont hate his plan. But there is no doubt that when Miller was in power people accused him of not consulting the public. This is beyond not consulting the public. This is barely consulting the council. Good plan or Not this is a issue.
 
Marko said:
Sure - but don't you find it a little rich that it's now being used to discredit Rob Ford when just a few months ago, the same people weren't willing to give him any credit for the project to begin with? Suzan Hall and Kyle Rae were very big players in that deal, but it's all Rob's fault now, apparently.

It's also not exactly apples to apples, since the major developer was US based and very hard hit during the financial meltdown that none of the players would have seen coming years before when they were putting the deal together. The Portlands are happening at a different time in terms of global finances and the stability of the Canadian marketplace is attracting investors from different parts of the world, like the UK and Australia apparently.

I've been trying to be a little more rational about this whole thing and since I don't vote in Toronto and have no personal attachment to any of the players, I don't know if that's allowed me to see it through a better lens or a worse one - depends on your own predilection, I guess. If Ford can tip-toe their way through this unlock some of the potential down there and get development going - as well as improve the financial standing of the city - I think it has to be considered. I do think a lot of the opposition is simply concern for doing it right considering the prominence of the area involved, but a lot of it is being co-opted by partisan opposition to anything Ford does and the understanding that if he actually pulls some or all of this off successfully, it will greatly mitigate their ability to call him a city killing, philistine failure of a mayor. That's what they're pining for and would rather see nothing done that see Ford succeed at anything.
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At what point do you stop making excuses for Rob Ford? You seem to jump to his defence, no matter what the issue is. Is there nothing Ford can do wrong, in your adoring eyes? (or does it just seem that way)
 
I would rather have FORD had proposed to move this development to the waterfront or to the CNE.
 
I actually like the thought of transit accessable race track with a out door shopping place like "shops at don mills" Id prefer where the downsview airport is but downtown would be good too. Just add a couple casinos and I never have to go to vegas or niagra again. That being said I liked WT original plan.
 
Marko said:
Sure - but don't you find it a little rich that it's now being used to discredit Rob Ford when just a few months ago, the same people weren't willing to give him any credit for the project to begin with? Suzan Hall and Kyle Rae were very big players in that deal, but it's all Rob's fault now, apparently.
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Whether Rob Ford deserves credit for it or not, the point is he took credit for it.
“I know how to deal with CEOs of huge corporations — that’s how I landed the largest development in Toronto’s history,” Ford, then councillor for Ward 2 Etobicoke North, told a newspaper last fall. “Woodbine Live! — I did that.”
 
sixrings said:
I would rather have FORD had proposed to move this development to the waterfront or to the CNE.
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Wait a minute, as i recall Exhibition Place is a 200 acre protected condo free area, featuring a trade centre, theatre and music buildings, monuments, parkland, sports facilities, and a number of civic, provincial, and national historic sites....its also home to the CNE/Ontario Place and holds over 150 special events through-out the year.. too small, and just wouldnt fly down there.
 
Torontovibe said:
At what point do you stop making excuses for Rob Ford? You seem to jump to his defence, no matter what the issue is. Is there nothing Ford can do wrong, in your adoring eyes? (or does it just seem that way)
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Oh he does plenty wrong and I have stated such, though I can see how my defense of him can appear all-encompassing. I've always been a bit of an iconoclast or non-conformal thinker, so since I'm technically an outsider I guess I'm willing/able to play devil's advocate (comedy not intentional) a little when I see a whole lot of piling on and one-sided debate, which includes some posters' use of hysterics, hyperbole and invective that does no good in the discussion.

Further, I'm not surprised in any way by anything a politician may do. They are all bought and paid for in some way or another and even those with the sincerest of intentions are open to influence - so I dont immediately make the leap to conclusions about corruption or hidden agendas. The truth is that in today's world and throughout history, it has always taken a little heung-yau to get things done. In free markets, money makes things happen, not ideas. If money is needed to get the city back on track and if money can be generated through an alternate plan of the portlands being executed, I'm OK with that as long as the end result is a good one. That's why I wanted to see the vision and not jump to conclusions that it was a power centre outlet mall and cheeseball midway that thaey had in mind, and they don't. Besides, even if they did, they don't have the means or ability to get that in there as I believe there are enough checks and balances in place to ensure that was is put in is not schlock. As I said before, I don't think the Ford's care one way or the other what goes down there architecturally and that they're happy to defer those decisions to others who know better - in other words I think they know what they don't know.
 
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