Toronto Casino Woodbine | 31.85m | 11s | One Toronto Gaming | CGL Architects

You probably live in the Downsview area and that is why you would like to see it there, but it makes no planning sense to have two airports located less than 5 minutes from each other. If Bombardier was going to locate in the area, they would locate at pearson. No, Downsview had its chance with Yorkdale, and although Yorkdale was a successful venture for the investors, it did little or nothing for the area because Yorkdale is after all still a mall, a place for one stop shopping. Malls are rarely if ever about improving the local economy; in fact they are more likely to harm the local economy due to their one stop shopping nature. If any development went up around Yorkdal, it would more likely compete with than complement Yorkdale. They only built Yorkdale where it is because of access to the subway, it was probably as close as they could get a mega-mall to the downtown toronto market. They knew that the people in the immediate area of the mall were not their target market, but they knew that being on the Yonge/Spadina line would get them the exposure they needed.

Now the Rexdale area is a similar kind of area, (though not as bad until you get past Martingrove) The Highway 27/ Rexdale area is actually not that bad!! Its biggest downfall is that there is absolutely nothing there right now except the racetrack, some half-decent subdivisions, and some expendable commercial properties such as car washes, garages, etc. This however is the PERFECT blank slate for urban planners and developpers. The current subdivisions which were part of this whole vision (including the Mansions of Humberwood luxury condos) provide a base market, because people living in this immediate area have some disposable income and a yearning for a lifestyle. Back in the day they tried with the Woodbine Mall, it was supposed to be another Yorkdale, but it flopped because they weren't thinking big enough, and it was not supported by a reasonable amount of public transit the way Yorkdale is. This time around however, they are planning not a mall, but a mixed use development that will attract people, there will also be people living and working there, they will also be getting rid of Woodbine Mall and redevelopping that land, and perhaps creating a whole new vibrant neighborhood. I haven't heard anything, but hopefully they plan to support this +$1 billion investment with an extension of the Sheppard line, whichwhile it is nothing compared to the Yonge Spadina line is certainly better than nothing. I can totally see the effects of this redeveloppment radiating outwards from the original Woodbine Live! development and completely transforming the area.
 
There's no comparison between Woodbine Live! and Woodbine Mall. Woodbine live is a mixed-use development. Right now the area is a blank slate. If you want to be a visionary and make a name for yourself you make something out of nothing while everyone builds on what others have done.
 
I suggest downsview because its relatively central located... The racetrack use to be on the waterfront... If I could get it back there I would... you speak of a mixed community... Thats the exact same thing downsview is planning.. But with one difference A SUBWAY... thats a huge difference no matter how you look at it... Its the reason you think woodbine failed and why Yorkdale thrived.. with Gas keep going up people will want entertainment TTC accessable... Thats just the new world we will be living in... Rexdale might be a blank slate but so is Downsview Parc... But everything you said which was a plus for REXDALE exists today at downsview... People moving into the area with new desposable incomes who want to live in a mixed use community (M1 M2 Condos at Allen and Sheppard.... Downsview Parc Condos) It has the Land which you consider a blank slate.... but again on top of everything it is more centrally located... No doubt about it... Downsview parc with a NHL team, A NFL team a race track... could become a major entertainment hub to many torontonians.. close enough to Yonge Sheppard, Forest Hill... Yorkdale shoppers...
 
well the longer this thing gets stalled and the more development happens at Downsview its going to look more and more like a better candidate... If its going to be built in rexdale BUILD it already.... But mixed use is not going to save REXDALE.... They dreampt plenty big with woodbine mall... IT HAS AN AMMUSEMENT PARK... the reality is the area just isnt very good and the transit issue doesnt help anything...
 
sixrings said:
well the longer this thing gets stalled and the more development happens at Downsview its going to look more and more like a better candidate... If its going to be built in rexdale BUILD it already.... But mixed use is not going to save REXDALE.... They dreampt plenty big with woodbine mall... IT HAS AN AMMUSEMENT PARK... the reality is the area just isnt very good and the transit issue doesnt help anything...
Click to expand...

You seem to know/follow Downsview well...I don't......can you tell me when the idea shifted from I being a parc/park to a major mixed use development site?
 
the problem with Downsview park is first of all that it is an urban pubic greenspace, there probably would be plenty of opposition to paving it over. It is not yet a mixed use development site. Sixrings is correct that there are condo developments going up on the southeast side of the park, but I think a main problem is that there are some post-war midrise developments on the west side of the park. It would be bad planning to put higher quality new developments next to these older ones, kindof like building a luxury condo in the middle of the Jane and Finch area. There would be too much stigma. I suspext that at least for now, luxury developments will stay on the east side with the park as a buffer. They would have to pull a regent park if they wanted to improve the area.

Furthermore as I said in a previous post , if you put a mixed use development in Downsview, it will be competing directly with Yorkdale, which is the most successful mall in the GTA I have no doubt.

So the 3 main problems with putting a Woodbine Live! type development in the downsview are are:
- endangering one of the largest and most widely used green spaces in Toronto, paving over a park would be highly controversial
- proximity to low income housing with high crime stigma attached to it, difficult to get rid of existing residential without displacing current residents
- competition with Yorkdale, Yorkdale does not play well with others, it is a one stop shopping extravaganza, and has done little or nothing to improve the local economy

None of these obstacles are insurmountable, and downsview DOES have the advantage of subway access, and it is more central, than 427 and Rexdale, but it would be more controversial place to build in right now. I have no doubt it will soon be developped, but it makes sense that rexdale and 427 be developped first. It is really the only area of Toronto that has no direct access to rapid transit, so it wouldn't be too outlandish to considder connecting it to the rest of Torontowith a subway it will probably get one eventually anyway. The Highway 27 corridor s one of those weird anomales in Toronto that never went boom or bust, it remained relatively undevelopped and just lay there. This means it has great potential to be Toronto's next big thing. Ample unused open space , and expendable low grade commercial properties means no need to uproot anyone to make way for new development, there is even a base market in the form of decent subdivisions recently built in the area. It is also a safe area, there aren't really any sketchy areas till you pass martingrove, or even Kipling.

Rookies look at the area and say "there's nothing there" but any real investor will look at that and say, "that means it is a perfect investment opportunity". The fact that there is nothing there means that the only risk involved is the project not being successful due to bad planning or poor support, these are all manageable risks compared to crime, stigma, and public opposition to paving over green spaces.
 
In response to your 3 arguments.
1. I was not suggesting the track be built over the park.. I was suggesting the Track be built over the existing airport at Downsview...
2. Rexdale has low income close to it as well so that stigma is present at both sites... However the Downsview area in general might at the beginning of a redevelopment with the new subway and park
3. In regards to YORKDALE... Lawrence Heights redevelopment will create 7500 extra residental units... Downsview park another 7500 Residential units... Lawrence and Dufferin is also seeing its north east corner get new units (Ill guess 1500) Finally the TTC is trying to sell its extra land at downsview for more countless condos... (I didnt even mention M1 M2 and the idomo site) All im saying is that there is going to be more then enough residential in the neighbourhood... In fact Id suggest that at some point Yorkdale is going to get maxed out... PLus if the race track was put on the bombardier site then there would be a significant amount of residents who could walk to the retail,., Yorkdale survives off Subway and CArs... but this location would have locals near by...
 
Bombardier Aerospace aint going anywhere :)..unless someone has the big bucks to relocate them.:mad:

Bombardier is a company name that is well known all over the world, but most people are not aware of the name of the neighbourhood where the company bases its operations. In fact, the Downsview area is home to many different people as well as to Canada's most famous company; let's take a quick look at both.

Downsview

Downsview whish is located in the GTA along with Etobicoke, Mississauga and Brampton, is located in the north end of Toronto. The neighbourhood actually started out as a farm in the 1870s, but as industrialization hit Canada, Toronto began to expand and that included the mass development of many former outlying areas. Perhaps the greatest boom occurred after World War II, when several different neighbourhoods were built around the Downsview Airport. This facility was used as a Canadian Forces Base, although it was shut down after the Cold War ended, and most of the space was converted to an urban park.

Downsview Park has actually hosted several very high profile and well attended events. These have included World Youth Day in 2002, presided over by Pope John Paul II and attended by over 800,000 people. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the park hosted the Sarsfest concert in 2003. This event was held to raise awareness and support of the SARS crisis which hit the city that year, and included musical acts from The Rolling Stones and AC/DC to Justin Timberlake. 500,000 fans attended the event, the largest ticketed event in history.

Bombardier

The Bombardier company is well known all over the world for developing various means of transportation, from jets to snowmobiles and all the accompanying accessories. The aerospace division of the company was launched in 1986, with the acquisition of Canadair. Several more purchases of bankrupt airplane creating companies followed, and today Bombardier specializes in business jets, short-range airlines and fire fighting airborne craft. They have also been contracted for several defence developments.

Bombardier and Downsview began their relationship around the same time as the Park was created. While the Forces base was converted into the Park, Bombardier purchased the actual airport. The company uses these facilities to both build and test their new aircraft.

Who could have known that a small farm on the outskirts of Toronto would one day be the home of the fourth largest developer of aircraft in the world? The partnership of Downsview and Bombardier means jobs and a secure economy for anyone who makes their home in the GTA particularly in Downsview, Etobicoke and even Mississauga.
 
im suggesting Barmbardier and WOODBINE trade land.... Woodbine would have to sweetnt the pot by adding extra money but they could make it back through extra development and no height restrictions...
 
sixrings said:
im suggesting Barmbardier and WOODBINE trade land.... Woodbine would have to sweetnt the pot by adding extra money but they could make it back through extra development and no height restrictions...
Click to expand...

Who on earth would propose an aircraft manufacturer in the middle of pre-existing suburbia these days?!? If anything, Bombardier/Dehaviland would more likely opt for something further into the periphery...
 
According to the Star, this project is very much on hold.

Ford-backed Woodbine Live! megaproject stalled

September 07, 2011

Paul Moloney

Toronto Star

While Councillor Doug Ford touts a mall for the Port Lands, no shovels have broken ground on a giant entertainment-shopping complex in his own ward, apparently because it’s having trouble attracting retailers.

The Woodbine Live! project at Woodbine Racetrack was trumpeted by Mayor Rob Ford on the campaign trail last year as proof he can get the private sector behind a megaproject.

“I know how to deal with CEOs of huge corporations — that’s how I landed the largest development in Toronto’s history,” Ford, then councillor for Ward 2 Etobicoke North, told a newspaper last fall. “Woodbine Live! — I did that.”

Baltimore-based The Cordish Companies, partnering on the project with the race track’s operator, told the Star in June 2010 that construction would start that fall, with the help of generous tax breaks from the city.

An employment centre was to open with a city-negotiated mandate to give residents of job-starved north Etobicoke first crack at the promised 9,000 permanent positions.

Shortly before he was elected mayor and his brother, Doug, elected to replace him as Ward 2 councillor, Rob Ford said: “People are excited — it’s going to revitalize Rexdale. Tourists will get off the plane and go to Rexdale.”

But, the Star has learned, no construction has started and no building permits have been sought. Rezonings for the project were granted four years ago.

Cordish is now telling the city it hopes to break ground in early 2012. The company wouldn’t comment on the project Wednesday. Its local partner, Woodbine Entertainment Group, seemed to suggest the delay was related to Cordish sorting out plan details with the city.

“It’s a bit difficult to say at the moment” when construction will start, said Nick Eaves, Woodbine Entertainment chief executive officer. “We’re hard at it.”

But Mike Williams, Toronto’s general manager of economic development, said the delay is related to the U.S. economy, adding he expected to see shovels in the ground by now.

“We had two projects that were significantly stalled by the recession of 2008-2009 and that was Woodbine Live! and MaRS Phase 2,” said Williams, referring to the medical research complex at College St. and University Ave. “It was just announced that MaRS Phase 2 will be restarted and I’m hopeful that Woodbine Live! will be soon after.”

The retail component of Woodbine Live! is expected to come first, with big box stores plus a galleria of upscale shops helping jump-start phases featuring restaurants, a movie theatre, hotel and 5,000-seat live performance venue.

Observers say construction typically doesn’t start on retail projects until tenants are found for the space.

One prospective tenant that got away is home improvement retailer Lowe’s, which last year opted to go to another north Etobicoke site, with then-councillor Rob Ford supporting a zoning change to allow it.

A city-hired retail consultant reported at the time there is room in the area for only one home improvement big box.

Cordish specializes in entertainment-retail developments, but has been looking at bringing in discount factory outlets for such names as Ralph Lauren and Coach, said commercial real estate executive John Crombie.

“During the recessionary period, late ’08 and early ’09, the only retail sector to experience a rise in sales was the factory outlet mall,” said Crombie, senior managing director at Cushman & Wakefield.

Doug Ford has touted a 1.6-million-square-foot “megamall” with high-end department stores as a centrepiece for Toronto’s eastern waterfront, saying the city is “underserved” by retail.

He told the Star last week that Australia-based mall giant Westfield has “a lot of money sitting there waiting to invest in Toronto.”

Another U.S. company, Simon Property Group, is developing a premium outlet centre at Highway 401 and Trafalgar Rd. in the Milton area, Crombie said.

And a joint venture of RioCan real estate investment trust and Tanger Factory Outlet Centers is building a project at Highway 401 and James Snow Parkway, he added.

Meanwhile, time is running out on the council-approved tax break that could reduce Woodbine Live’s property tax bill by $120 million over 20 years.

To reap the savings, the project must employ at least 2,500 people and complete 75,000 square metres of construction by October 2014.

It would be up to city council to grant a deadline extension if asked, Williams said.
 
Haha! :) You're right! Ford sure provides a lot of dirt! ;) :D

It does relate to the Portlands fiasco in that it's more clumsy and inept handling of City finances and land. Hehe! :D
 
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