Toronto Aura at College Park | 271.87m | 78s | Canderel | Graziani + Corazza

[taal]

Since we are talking about the world, so let's do it.
Toronto has 86 homocide cases in 2007, 70 in 2008 and 62 in 2009, averaging 73 per year. So homocide rate was about 2.92 per 100,000 people in these three years.

During the same period, European big cities:
Berlin: 1.93
Paris: 1.40
Madrid 1.14
Rome: 1.20
Vienna: 1.07
London: 1.92
Athens: 1.98

Source: Eurostat, Crime and Criminal Justice, June 2012.

In Asia, Singapore (population 5.2M)'s homocide rate is below 0.5 per 100,000. Tokyo's rate is about the same.
Hong Kong's rate is about 0.8. You will find extremely rate for others such as seoul, Taipei etc as well. They are all similar to or bigger than Toronto in size. In fact, their murder rate (under 1 per 100,000) is not even on the same scale as Toronto (between 2.5 and 3).

Toronto may be safe compared with major American cities, but it is nowhere that exceptional when put in the global context.
I honestly do not know where many people get this idea that Toronto is one of the safest cities in the world. It is simply NOT.

Those were some of the worst years in the last few decades if I recall ... and murder rates typically tend to be somewhat cyclical do to gang activity (you'll see this everywhere). Toronto has been around 50 the last few years, and what's the current estimated population, 2.7 ? Which makes the rate 1.85, in the mix above.

I'm not sure why people get caught up with the murder rate anyway, its the least important of all the statistics, you'd be much better off comparing, robberies / assaults / thefts ... that would be much more interesting.

Now in middle eastern and Asian countries, less ones caught up with civil strife / wars, I do think you'll find lower rates all around, and this is more of a cultural thing. Now at the same time you need to be careful with some of these rates (less murder ... maybe), as I'm willing to bet they are far more inaccurate in middle eastern / Asian countries ... not necessarily because of how accurately the government keeps track of these things though that can be an issue, but again its more of a cultural reason, that is I bet there are far more unreported cases throughout Asia (of rape / theft / assault / ...).

 

[jetsbackincanada]

Well Toronto has been around 50 the last few years, and what's the current estimated population, 2.7 ? Which makes the rate 1.85, in the mix above.

I some times forget just how VIOLENT America is!!!!!!!

I remember my brother the other day, saying that alot of American citys are down near war torn places like Middle east and East Africa, in terms of GUN VIOLENCE!!

Yet in the news here its just business as usual!!! * While the schools get shot up!!??

I cant remember any of the dire predictions of the future made by Hollywood films, EVER including kids with guns and elementary battle grounds!!! ?? SAD

 

[someMidTowner]

Well Toronto has been around 50 the last few years, and what's the current estimated population, 2.7 ? Which makes the rate 1.85, in the mix above.

I'm not sure why people get caught up with the murder rate anyway, its the least important of all the statistics, you'd be much better off comparing, robberies / assaults / thefts ... that would be much more interesting.

Now in middle eastern and Asian countries, less ones caught up with civil strife / wars, I do think you'll find lower rates all around, and this is more of a cultural thing.

Taal is right, murder rate is only a small factor in determining livability. Living so close to a US border doesn't help our case with guns. And for the record (balenciaga), its homicide not homocide (which sounds more like a hate crime).

 

[SixPoints]

Well said...

I will add that for a city of 6+ million , it is as safe and livable and clean as any city anywhere in the world?

Is there a SAFER city anywhere??? ( of 5+ million)

So even our "bad sides" are far from Baltimore's east side.. or not to pick on Detroit, but???

Yes, I saw recently on CNN that Chicago hit 500 murders in 2012 and they are actually down from 2011. In places like Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore, I believe the local news casts don't even touch on the gang murders on a daily basis (or at least not all of them) since there seem to be multiple homicides per day. Each and every homicide in TO is headline news due to the low number each year.

 

[balenciaga]

Yes, I saw recently on CNN that Chicago hit 500 murders in 2012 and they are actually down from 2011. In places like Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore, I believe the local news casts don't even touch on the gang murders on a daily basis (or at least not all of them) since there seem to be multiple homicides per day. Each and every homicide in TO is headline news due to the low number each year.

stop focusing on American cities. In much of the developed world, US cities are more of outliners than the norm. So being safer than American cities doesn't mean anything, it is like being taller than a drawf doesn't mean you are particularly tall. All this Chicago/Detroit/Baltimore mocking is unnecesary.

If you compare crime rates with European and East Asian cities, Toronto's crime rate, especially violent crime, is average or on the high side.

 

[balenciaga]

Those were some of the worst years in the last few decades if I recall ... and murder rates typically tend to be somewhat cyclical do to gang activity (you'll see this everywhere). Toronto has been around 50 the last few years, and what's the current estimated population, 2.7 ? Which makes the rate 1.85, in the mix above.

I'm not sure why people get caught up with the murder rate anyway, its the least important of all the statistics, you'd be much better off comparing, robberies / assaults / thefts ... that would be much more interesting.

Now in middle eastern and Asian countries, less ones caught up with civil strife / wars, I do think you'll find lower rates all around, and this is more of a cultural thing. Now at the same time you need to be careful with some of these rates (less murder ... maybe), as I'm willing to bet they are far more inaccurate in middle eastern / Asian countries ... not necessarily because of how accurately the government keeps track of these things though that can be an issue, but again its more of a cultural reason, that is I bet there are far more unreported cases throughout Asia (of rape / theft / assault / ...).

In 2012, Toronto had 54 murder cases so far (assuming no one gets killed for the rest of the day). So the rate is about exactly 2, comparable to Athens, still higher than all the big EU cities I mentioned, right?

I used 2007-2009 number because the data I found for EU cities are for those years. Not sure how crimes changed during the past 3 years in those cities.

Now Toronto doesn't do that well in terms of murder, so you are suggesting murder cases are not that important. OK, in which case we shouldn't compare murder rate with American cities as well. You can't use double standards, right. Toronto/Vancouver's less serious crimes such as robbery/property crime are most likely not that lower than American cities.


Speaking of crime in general, here is a source: http://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

As you can see, Canada's safety index is in the middle of the pack at about 60. On one hand you have Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong ect at about 90, on the other, Venezuala and S. Africa at 15-20. USA is at 35.
It is pretty clear that Canada is not an exceptionally safe country. It is average. Toronto would fare similarly I suppose, but I don't have more specific data yet.

I am just trying to be impartial here. Many seem to think just because America is a lot dangerous, Canadian cities are the safest in the world (someone even asked "is there another city safer than Toronto in the world" I have to laugh), but when you really look at numbers, such conclusion simply don't hold. Believe it or not, there are many many large cities in the world where you can safely walk on the street at 2am without worrying much about being killed, raped or mugged. Toronto is luckily one of them.

 

[agoraflaneur]

It is interesting because I was just about to agree totally with Balenciaga, and then I looked at the wikipedia list of murder rates.

I thought that South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. were all very low murder rate countries when compared to Canada - but when you look at the figures,

Japan is 0.4
Canada is 1.6
Vietnam is 1.6
South Korea is 2.6
Taiwan is 3.2
Thailand is 4.5.
US is 4.2.

(China is 1.0 but I find it hard to believe these statistics coming out of China, particularly for the entire country).

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Obviously this isn't cities, it is countries, but I don't really understand - does everyone is Seoul, which constitutes almost 50% of S. Korea's population - or Taipai, just go out of the city to commit their murders? Or are the countrysides simply more violent places?

What is clear is that Torontonians often do get a false sense of security because of the violence in the U.S. (yet Latin America or Africa are still drastically higher in per capita murder than the US.), however, and that Hong Kong and Singapore are truly the safest cities in the entire world:

Hong Kong is 0.2
Singapore is 0.3

The thing about these two cities is that they really are mainly playgrounds for the rich global elite (especially Singapore), so I don't really think that they are as comparable to other world cities like Toronto.

Finally, I really doubt that theft or other measures of crime are particularly lower in Toronto compared to others cities in the rich world.

 

[DarkSideDenizen]

This thread is being murdered. All very interesting, but does anyone know how much pouring have they done this week? Are they back to a regular schedule on Wednesday?

 

[someMidTowner]

This thread is being murdered. All very interesting, but does anyone know how much pouring have they done this week? Are they back to a regular schedule on Wednesday?

Looking at the webcam, it seems they haven't done any work since the 23rd or 24th. If you check the L tower construction info website, you will see that they have also paused for the holidays. I think most construction crews in the city got the week off, so we should see work resume on Wednesday.

 

[DarkSideDenizen]

Looking at the webcam, it seems they haven't done any work since the 23rd or 24th. If you check the L tower construction info website, you will see that they have also paused for the holidays. I think most construction crews in the city got the week off, so we should see work resume on Wednesday.

Cool, Thanks for the response. I'm eager to see how the setback and curve take shape.

 

[balenciaga]

Hong Kong is 0.2
Singapore is 0.3

The thing about these two cities is that they really are mainly playgrounds for the rich global elite (especially Singapore), so I don't really think that they are as comparable to other world cities like Toronto.

Apparently you have a misunderstanding about Hong Kong and Singapore.

Both cities have their fair share of poor people and are hardly just "mainly playgrounds for the rich global elite“.
Singapore's median household income is about S$60,000 a year, or a bit over C$48,000, which is lower than both Canada and the US. They have very strict laws, which is probably why murder rate is so low. A few examples：

Sale of Chewing gums is prohibited
Littering results in $1,000 fine
connecting to unsecured wifi (such as Starbucks) might end up in jail time
Homosexuals are illegal
Pornography is illegal.
Oral sex is illegal (I know...)
Bungee jumping is illegal

I am not surprised that murder rate is exceptionally low in this country.

 

[innsertnamehere]

also, doing drugs results in the death penalty. not a very tolerant nation, that much is for sure.

 

[taal]

I'll say it again, as I believe this is very true; Many things to not get reported in Asian countries, so I wouldn't read much into low numbers.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Apparently you have a misunderstanding about Hong Kong and Singapore.

Both cities have their fair share of poor people and are hardly just "mainly playgrounds for the rich global elite“.
Singapore's median household income is about S$60,000 a year, or a bit over C$48,000, which is lower than both Canada and the US. They have very strict laws, which is probably why murder rate is so low. A few examples

First of all, I'm not sure why you've brought Hong Kong into this as it is not ruled by an authoritarian regime and shares none of the claims you make about Singapore below.

Sale of Chewing gums is prohibited

True. Chewing gum was originally banned in 1992 in response to vandals using it to muck up the doors on the newly-opened MRT. The ban was revised in 2004 and 2010.

Littering results in $1,000 fine

Not true. The fine for littering in Singapore was increased to 500 SD (approx $410 CAD) in November 2012.

connecting to unsecured wifi (such as Starbucks) might end up in jail time

Not true. There was one highly-publicized case in 2006 but the teen did not go to jail in the end.

Homosexuals are illegal

True and unacceptable.

Pornography is illegal.

True and unacceptable.

Oral sex is illegal (I know...)

Not true. Oral and anal sex between conscenting, heterosexual couples was legalized in 2007.

Bungee jumping is illegal

Not true. Bungee jumping was legalized in 2003 and Singapore now boasts one of the most intense bungee experiences in Asia: the G-MAX Reverse Bungee.

I am not surprised that murder rate is exceptionally low in this country.

I'm in no way advocating for the sort of regime which currently exists in Singapore but in this and the Dragon Condos thread you've proven your ignorance when it comes to pretty well all things Asian. Why relax on the chest-thumping and sit the next round out?

 

[UrbanAffair]

First of all, I'm not sure why you've brought Hong Kong into this as it is not ruled by an authoritarian regime and shares none of the claims you make about Singapore below.



True. Chewing gum was originally banned in 1992 in response to vandals using it to muck up the doors on the newly-opened MRT. The ban was revised in 2004 and 2010.



Not true. The fine for littering in Singapore was increased to 500 SD (approx $410 CAD) in November 2012.



Not true. There was one highly-publicized case in 2006 but the teen did not go to jail in the end.



True and unacceptable.



True and unacceptable.



Not true. Oral and anal sex between conscenting, heterosexual couples was legalized in 2007.



Not true. Bungee jumping was legalized in 2003 and Singapore now boasts one of the most intense bungee experiences in Asia: the G-MAX Reverse Bungee.



I'm in no way advocating for the sort of regime which currently exists in Singapore but in this and the Dragon Condos thread you've proven your ignorance when it comes to pretty well all things Asian. Why relax on the chest-thumping and sit the next round out?

I agree exactly with your response P.end. I was gonna say something similar but you beat me too it. Although i didnt know about the bungee jumping or the oral sex issues. Bungee jumping is kind of random issue anyway, not sure if that would be my priority on something that would need fixing given the other issues there.