Toronto as a Global City? What's holding us back?

[Second_in_pie]

I think the hard thing going for Toronto is that it's a great place to live, but it doesn't have the notable things that other cities do. It doesn't have anything really spectacular like the Golden Gate Bridge, Eiffel Tower, Big Ben, etc. But it's got the right things that make it an amazing place to actually live; things like interesting places to go for the night or for a weekend, amazing diversity, good standards of living, and good transit. These things aren't as big draws as places like San Francisco or New York, where the livability might actually be lower, but there's more spectacle and pizzaz to attract people for a weekend or something.
Los Angles is a good example. You go to LA, go to some theme parks, take a walk on the beach, and visit Hollywood. But then someone asks you if you'd like to live there. The immediate answer: Hell yes! But after just half a minute of thinking, perhaps while you're on a freeway or outside the main venues, your answer turns to "Hell no!"
That clashes with Toronto heavily. You go to Toronto, go visit Fort York and then take a trip to Wonderland for half a day. Then you're done. "What a waste of a week booked hotel!" You say angrily. But someone asks you if you'd like to live here, and you think about the friendly CBD, transit and diversity, and you say "Yeah, it'd actually be pretty nice!"

And I get the feeling that for the most part, Toronto will always be like that. But we'll keep attracting new people to live here because of good standards of living and good business opportunity, and I guess we'll attract families visiting their relatives in the city.
Definitely the biggest thing going for us in terms of tourism is Niagara Falls (well, talking about the GGH instead of Toronto,) which has huge amounts of untapped potential. It's got a bit of competition from it's southern twin, but I think right now it's definitely got the upper hand. The government should be doing more investment to that; trying to get more tourist attractions there (hotels, casinos, aquariums and such.) It could definitely be a sort of Vegas-lite, or Vegas-Canada. And by improving ties with Hamilton and St. Catherines, it could become more reliant on Tourism and Information, making the economy stronger.

My dream for the city (Niagara Falls,) would be a strip-lite core directly around the falls, with hotels, some casinos, and entertainment venues like an aquarium. Coming out of this core would be a main shopping street to make the city more walkable, as well as creating another tourism destination. Along the river would be high-mid rise condos, probably for people working in Hamilton and St. Catherines, but living in the city for the view or more laid back way of life. Naturally, these people would take the train to work, running on HSR-grade track from the Toronto-New York corridor (ok, hopefully.) There should also be a relatively major theme park somewhere, which would increase the entertainment value exponentially, as well as creating an alternative to Wonderland for the western end of the GGH.

Pipe dream? Possibly. Coolness factor if it turns out that way? Through the roof.

 

[jn_12]

I think the hard thing going for Toronto is that it's a great place to live, but it doesn't have the notable things that other cities do. It doesn't have anything really spectacular like the Golden Gate Bridge, Eiffel Tower, Big Ben, etc. But it's got the right things that make it an amazing place to actually live; things like interesting places to go for the night or for a weekend, amazing diversity, good standards of living, and good transit. These things aren't as big draws as places like San Francisco or New York, where the livability might actually be lower, but there's more spectacle and pizzaz to attract people for a weekend or something.
Los Angles is a good example. You go to LA, go to some theme parks, take a walk on the beach, and visit Hollywood. But then someone asks you if you'd like to live there. The immediate answer: Hell yes! But after just half a minute of thinking, perhaps while you're on a freeway or outside the main venues, your answer turns to "Hell no!"
That clashes with Toronto heavily. You go to Toronto, go visit Fort York and then take a trip to Wonderland for half a day. Then you're done. "What a waste of a week booked hotel!" You say angrily. But someone asks you if you'd like to live here, and you think about the friendly CBD, transit and diversity, and you say "Yeah, it'd actually be pretty nice!"

I don't deny that living in a city is different from visiting it but you've really missed the boat with regards to the product we have here. I could easily create a 7 day itinerary that would keep you busy with things to see and do in Toronto and the GGH. I used to work for the city's Tourism Department and my job was just to talk to tourists and give them advice. So trust me when I say you're wrong.

With that in mind, I'd argue half of our tourism is currently untapped potential and just needs to be marketed properly. People don't care as much about seeing the Golden Gate Bridges of the world as you would think (or at least the people who tend to spend the most money don't care about them) especially with the growth of the internet and things like google street view, you can pretty much see anything you want, when you want, for free (of course experiencing it for yourself is great but now you can get a sense of whether something is worth it via the net). Instead, there's a growing trend towards "experiences", which is tied into the everyday feel of a city (which as you admitted is something we are great at). In a way people want to know what it's like to live in the city they're travelling to (without having to pay bills and work, of course), and yes they'll throw in a visit to the ROM, but they also want to check out neighbourhoods and hidden gems and learn about the place they're in and get a feel for where they are and its history and talk to locals and so on.

Toronto can thrive in that environment. It already has the backbone of the mass tourism industry (CN Tower, AGO, ROM, etc) but we are a city of neighbourhoods and the fact is that you could spend a night every day of the week in a new neighbourhood and have a mindblowing experience that you share with your friends when you get home. Other cities are already doing this and we just need to start acknowledging that there are tons of niches and interests out there that people are willing to spend money on. Hell, when I was in Paris 3 years ago I ran into a tour group doing a week long tour of all of the sites in The Da Vinci Code. The possibilities really are endless.

And I get the feeling that for the most part, Toronto will always be like that. But we'll keep attracting new people to live here because of good standards of living and good business opportunity, and I guess we'll attract families visiting their relatives in the city.
Definitely the biggest thing going for us in terms of tourism is Niagara Falls (well, talking about the GGH instead of Toronto,) which has huge amounts of untapped potential. It's got a bit of competition from it's southern twin, but I think right now it's definitely got the upper hand. The government should be doing more investment to that; trying to get more tourist attractions there (hotels, casinos, aquariums and such.) It could definitely be a sort of Vegas-lite, or Vegas-Canada. And by improving ties with Hamilton and St. Catherines, it could become more reliant on Tourism and Information, making the economy stronger.

My dream for the city (Niagara Falls,) would be a strip-lite core directly around the falls, with hotels, some casinos, and entertainment venues like an aquarium. Coming out of this core would be a main shopping street to make the city more walkable, as well as creating another tourism destination. Along the river would be high-mid rise condos, probably for people working in Hamilton and St. Catherines, but living in the city for the view or more laid back way of life. Naturally, these people would take the train to work, running on HSR-grade track from the Toronto-New York corridor (ok, hopefully.) There should also be a relatively major theme park somewhere, which would increase the entertainment value exponentially, as well as creating an alternative to Wonderland for the western end of the GGH.

Pipe dream? Possibly. Coolness factor if it turns out that way? Through the roof.

You're not from Niagara, are you? Because you're essentially proposing riverfront condos in what is now a green space that stretches for much of the river from lake to lake in an area of the country that might have been hit hardest by the recent recession. Who is going to afford your dream? And why would you ruin such an asset? They've already done enough paving near the falls. There's no need to stretch that for kilometres in each direction.

Your "main shopping street coming from the core" is already there. It's called Lundy's Lane. And, they already have an amusement park called Marineland, which at one point was targeted by Wonderland's folks, but is currently dying a slow death.

Also, Niagara Falls' untapped potential is found in its ability to establish itself as a year round destination. The summer months are already packed with people (it's almost too packed actually). It's the Winter when no one wants to sit near a frigid waterfall where they are trying to create a more diverse product to attract people to the area. The casinos are one way of doing it, but things like the Great Wolf Lodge will help attract the families to the area for at least the weekends in the colder months. Niagara Falls has come a long way since the mid-90s. It's just now realizing that it can't sustain itself on a 4month tourist season. Sports tourism is starting to become a big thing in Niagara as well, and there might be some potential there too.

Your vision for transit is fine. Taking GO into Niagara Falls was a great first step for bringing tourists to the area. But, people from outside of Niagara don't understand that Niagara is really in it's own world. People who live in St Catharines, Niagara Falls, Welland, Port Colborne, Fort Erie, etc, don't go to Hamilton. I grew up in St Catharines and Welland and out of everyone I ever met I cannot recall one person or their parents who commuted outside of Niagara to work. It just doesn't happen down there. If you live in Niagara, you work in Niagara and it's something that people from the GTA can't seem to wrap their heads around. In fact, I would argue more people have links to Buffalo than Hamilton and the rest of the GTA.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That clashes with Toronto heavily. You go to Toronto, go visit Fort York and then take a trip to Wonderland for half a day. Then you're done.

Wonderland is not in Toronto. The thread was not titled GTA as Global City.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Wonderland is not in Toronto. The thread was not titled GTA as Global City.

So when you "Go to NYC" you don't go to Jersey City or Long Island? When you go to LA, you don't go to Orange County? When you go to San Francisco, you don't go to San Jose or Oakland? Someone says they're going to Toronto, and that applies to the entire GTA, maybe even the GGH. It's the common name for the region, just like "San Francisco" is the common name for the Bay Area, "New York" is the name for everywhere near New York, and "Vancouver" can apply to Burnaby, Richmond, and everywhere in that area.

 

[Whoaccio]

Is it really that important to be a "global city"? All things being equal I'm of the opinion that bigger is better, but I don't really see what Toronto ever gets out of these totally arbitrary categorization of cities. I'm more interested in comparing for things like quantity and quality of infrastructure, economic growth, quality of life*, population growth and other markers than if we are "Alpha" or "Beta." This isn't Brave New World, dammit!

*even "quality of life" is tricky, given that there is no universal definition of what makes life good. For cities though, a composite index of local health services, educational facilities, environmental quality and maybe even a minor weighting for climate seems fair enough.

 

[urbandreamer]

^No. You're wrong.

GTA may be where tourists with family in the GTA go to crash for a night or three. But tourists don't make a huge fuss about going to see Mississauga. Amish Mennonite country in Waterloo? Yes. MCC? No.

Toronto needs to market itself as an ugly city!

"Toronto: we love to see you with the lights out!"

 

[Glen]

Wonderland is not in Toronto. The thread was not titled GTA as Global City.

A large percentage of rankings, especially economic ones, include GTA data.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So when you "Go to NYC" you don't go to Jersey City or Long Island?

No. I go to Manhattan, Broadway and Central Park. You're suggesting a trip a completely different State (NJ) is a trip to NYC?

When you go to LA, you don't go to Orange County? When you go to San Francisco, you don't go to San Jose or Oakland?

Yes, and that's called a nice trip to California.

Someone says they're going to Toronto, and that applies to the entire GTA

That's your opinion certainly, but this thread is about Toronto as a Global City. I don't think you can throw the entire GTA into the definition of Toronto as a Global City.

Here below is a map of the GTA, do you really consider Scugog, Caledon and Georgina as part of the Global City of Toronto? Maybe you could throw in Mississauga, Pickering, Vaughan and Markham, but the entire GTA as you suggest.... I can't agree.

 

[Second_in_pie]

No. I go to Manhattan, Broadway and Central Park. You're suggesting a trip a completely different State (NJ) is a trip to NYC?Yes, and that's called a nice trip to California. That's your opinion certainly, but this thread is about Toronto as a Global City. I don't think you can throw the entire GTA into the definition of Toronto as a Global City.

So if you're taking a trip to New York City, you'd say to someone "Yeah, I'm going to Broadway for the weekend?" No, I think not. You'd say "I'm going to NYC." If you'd actually say "I'm going to Broadway," then I'll just say that most people would say "I'm going to NYC."

I'm gonna take a wild guess that you're from the city of Toronto, because you're being a classic "Toronto snob." You know what I'm talking about, thinking Toronto is so special that it's a totally separate entity from the rest of the GTA. Yeah, no it's not.

 

[TOareaFan]

by that pure definition of Toronto as the city of Toronto....it doesn't even have an airport that can take jets!!! Man, it will never make it as a global city!

New York doesn't even have professional football...how does it compete!

LA is NOT the capital of the entertainment world...that is Hollywood/West Hollywood.

etc etc etc.....I think most people when they are referring to major/global cities are referring to the greater metropolitan areas that those cities centre.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Yeah... TOareaFan is doing a much better job of describing this than I am

 

[OttoSchloss]

Well the people who live in Jersey City and Long island refer to themselves as New Yorkers. Even if their only tie to the metro area is a Monday-Friday job or night out on the weekend.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I'm voting 'NYC/SF/Toronto snob' here

So if you're taking a trip to New York City, you'd say to someone "Yeah, I'm going to Broadway for the weekend?" No, I think not. You'd say "I'm going to NYC." If you'd actually say "I'm going to Broadway," then I'll just say that most people would say "I'm going to NYC."

I'm gonna take a wild guess that you're from the city of Toronto, because you're being a classic "Toronto snob." You know what I'm talking about, thinking Toronto is so special that it's a totally separate entity from the rest of the GTA. Yeah, no it's not.

The only reason someone says, "I'm headed for NYC" when they're actually going to Jersey City is that they don't want the shame of telling people their business partners are an investment firm that can't afford Manhattan.

From a tourism point of view, a visit to Toronto is a trip to the City of Toronto -- a trip to Algonquin Park would be a trip to Canada, probably, for your average German tourist. Toronto would be irrelevant. But a trip to Wonderland? That's one suburbanite going to another suburb -- no one flies into Toronto to go to Wonderland -- they drive from Newmarket.

So, YES, I go to SF, NOT San Jose, and ride the trolley. I go to NYC, NOT Long Island, and go to the Frick. And when I go to Toronto, I go to the ROM, AGO, Luminato, the Islands, the Rogers Centre, the ACC, the CN Tower.

And, yeah, the City of Toronto is not the GTA. Thanks be to a benevolent God.

 

[Anth]

Quo vadis, UT?

Anyone who thinks Toronto and the GTA are completely separate things clearly doesn't understand their own city and how it works.

However, I concede it's easier on the ego to live in a superior dreamworld where a city's great achievements and attractions are supported only by the hands of pure citizens born and raised within the proverbial city walls.

 

[Wrk_InProgress]

That's one suburbanite going to another suburb -- no one flies into Toronto to go to Wonderland -- they drive from Newmarket.

While tourists may not flock to Toronto specifically to go to Wonderland, I don't think it is a stretch to assume that some of the tourists do end up at Wonderland over the course of their stay.

The suburban, plebian tourists ONLY (i.e. the Newmarket-ites of the world) though. I'm sure no self-respecting urban tourist would want to travel to a disgusting suburb to ride a roller-coaster or two.....