Toronto 89 Avenue Yorkville | 76.5m | 20s | Armour Heights | Richard Wengle

Less than excellent sound, but in this video, David Delaney, Development Manager at Freed, talks about how the firm is working through this project (among other things). Pretty interesting stuff.

[video=youtube;MULsskibp7w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULsskibp7w[/video]
 
Yes, they have settled on 20 storeys, and the six-storey building in the back (and the east end of the property) has been made three floors, essentially just completing the podium area. No word on when this will move forward at this time.

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Public consultations mean nothing, I buy and sell Commercial Real Estate as both investor and Realtor so I see this day in and day out. I.E Developer "proposes" 30 story development while they really wanted 20 stories, developer engages in so called "community/public consultation", the public cries fowl and the pitchforks come out, developer goes to OMB and gets 25 stories ( more than they even wanted), public thinks they won. Rinse, wash and repeat. Research what percentage of proposals OMB shut down or drastically altered from what the developer "proposed", 90%+ of all OMB applications get approved in favour of developers. There is no such word as "settled" development in Toronto is always always aways, did I say always? in favour of developers.
 
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david-realtor said:
Public consultations mean nothing, I buy and sell Commercial Real Estate as both investor and Realtor so I see this day in and day out. I.E Developer "proposes" 30 story development while they really wanted 20 stories, developer engages in so called "community/public consultation", the public cries fowl and the pitchforks come out, developer goes to OMB and gets 25 stories ( more than they even wanted), public thinks they won. Rinse, wash and repeat. Research what percentage of proposals OMB shut down or drastically altered from what the developer "proposed", 90%+ of all OMB applications get approved in favour of developers. There is no such word as "settled" development in Toronto is always always aways, did I say always? in favour of developers.
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I believe you copy and pasted this from another thread earlier today... none of which is news to anyone here, especially the second time around.
 
david-realtor said:
Public consultations mean nothing, I buy and sell Commercial Real Estate as both investor and Realtor so I see this day in and day out. I.E Developer "proposes" 30 story development while they really wanted 20 stories, developer engages in so called "community/public consultation", the public cries fowl and the pitchforks come out, developer goes to OMB and gets 25 stories ( more than they even wanted), public thinks they won. Rinse, wash and repeat. Research what percentage of proposals OMB shut down or drastically altered from what the developer "proposed", 90%+ of all OMB applications get approved in favour of developers. There is no such word as "settled" development in Toronto is always always aways, did I say always? in favour of developers.
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Not true. Public consultation results in many changes to projects.

Sure, developers often go in asking for more than they are willing to take, but all of them want as much as they can get, and they just never know in advance just where their proposals are going to end up.

In this particular case, Freed may be ending up with a shorter building, but it's not really a smaller building, as the length of each floor is going to extend more to the east, replacing the space lost vertically with more horizontal space. The neighbours got the massing concessions through public consultation.

In regards to your always always always rant, the OMB threw out a proposal at 906 Yonge, just a block or two east of here, a month ago.

Got a legitimate complaint about development? Fight it. The outcomes from the process are not as predictable are you are making out.

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interchange42 said:
Not true. Public consultation results in many changes to projects.

Sure, developers often go in asking for more than they are willing to take, but all of them want as much as they can get, and they just never know in advance just where their proposals are going to end up.

In this particular case, Freed may be ending up with a shorter building, but it's not really a smaller building, as the length of each floor is going to extend more to the east, replacing the space lost vertically with more horizontal space. The neighbours got the massing concessions through public consultation.

In regards to your always always always rant, the OMB threw out a proposal at 906 Yonge, just a block or two east of here, a month ago.

Got a legitimate complaint about development? Fight it. The outcomes from the process are not as predictable are you are making out.

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That's one proposal. The chance of "winning" at the OMB is clearly in the appellants favour.
 
That's because province > city, so provincial policy > city zoning. Since the city is set up as a creature of the province, I'm not sure why anyone would expect it to win at the OMB?
 
interchange42 said:
Not true. Public consultation results in many changes to projects.

Sure, developers often go in asking for more than they are willing to take, but all of them want as much as they can get, and they just never know in advance just where their proposals are going to end up.

In this particular case, Freed may be ending up with a shorter building, but it's not really a smaller building, as the length of each floor is going to extend more to the east, replacing the space lost vertically with more horizontal space. The neighbours got the massing concessions through public consultation.

In regards to your always always always rant, the OMB threw out a proposal at 906 Yonge, just a block or two east of here, a month ago.

Got a legitimate complaint about development? Fight it. The outcomes from the process are not as predictable are you are making out.

42
Click to expand...

You are looking at this from the "public" perspective. What I said is my 2 cents based on facts, in regards 906 Yonge from what I recall they are going to the OMB with a new proposal again. The Developers in the city that have experience always get their way. I stick by my statement that public consultations are a farce.
 
david-realtor said:
You are looking at this from the "public" perspective. What I said is my 2 cents based on facts, in regards 906 Yonge from what I recall they are going to the OMB with a new proposal again. The Developers in the city that have experience always get their way. I stick by my statement that public consultations are a farce.
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Oooo excited for 906 Yonge what do you think they are proposing? More height or more units? You think they will launch late this year ?
 
david-realtor said:
Public consultations mean nothing, I buy and sell Commercial Real Estate as both investor and Realtor so I see this day in and day out. I.E Developer "proposes" 30 story development while they really wanted 20 stories, developer engages in so called "community/public consultation", the public cries fowl and the pitchforks come out, developer goes to OMB and gets 25 stories ( more than they even wanted), public thinks they won. Rinse, wash and repeat. Research what percentage of proposals OMB shut down or drastically altered from what the developer "proposed", 90%+ of all OMB applications get approved in favour of developers. There is no such word as "settled" development in Toronto is always always aways, did I say always? in favour of developers.
Click to expand...

My experience is not nearly as vast as yours but, in the limited amount I have, developers do play underdog at the OMB in cases where planning staff have recommended refusal. It explains why the majority of disputes are settled before the OMB hearing. Of couse, saving time is a huge reason for that too. On paper, of course, these read as OMB victories which isn't really the case. Every development has a minimum to make it financially worthwhile. That doesn't mean they apply for 30 storeys but really just want 20 storeys. Communities aren't that naive let alone our professional planners either. Not all public consultations suggest lowering the height either. There's been more than a few cases where more storeys with a slimmer massing was suggested and implemented. I just think about all the implemented suggestions that came from public consultations for dozens of proposals. I don't know how anyone can suggest they are no more than a farce.
 
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RZ12 said:
Oooo excited for 906 Yonge what do you think they are proposing? More height or more units? You think they will launch late this year ?
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Wrong thread for delving further into 906 Yonge. Take it to that thread.

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maestro said:
My experience is not nearly as vast as yours but, in the limited amount I have, developers do play underdog at the OMB in cases where planning staff have recommended refusal. It explains why the majority of disputes are settled before the OMB hearing. Of couse, saving time is a huge reason for that too. On paper, of course, these read as OMB victories which isn't really the case. Every development has a minimum to make it financially worthwhile. That doesn't mean they apply for 30 storeys but really just want 20 storeys. Communities aren't that naive let alone our professional planners either. Not all public consultations suggest lowering the height either. There's been more than a few cases where more storeys with a slimmer massing was suggested and implemented. I just think about all the implemented suggestions that came from public consultations for dozens of proposals. I don't know how anyone can suggest they are no more than a farce.
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I don't know what to tell you, what I said is based on my experience and going to over 8 OMB hearings in the last 2.5 years. I know people like to think they "won" against the developers but the reality is totally different.
 
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