Toronto 793 Don Mills | 202m | 60s | Menkes | Sweeny &Co

[AlbertC]

Menkes acquires Foresters office tower, dev. land in Toronto

Menkes has acquired a 5.1-acre site with a 386,523-square-foot office building, owned and largely occupied by Foresters Financial, which has strong redevelopment potential. The $91.25-million deal for the property at 789-793 Don Mills Rd. and 10 Ferrand Dr. in Toronto

renx.ca

Menkes acquires Foresters office tower, dev. land in Toronto​

Mar 21, 2022

Menkes has acquired a 5.1-acre site with a 386,523-square-foot office building, owned and largely occupied by Foresters Financial, which has strong redevelopment potential.

The $91.25-million deal for the property at 789-793 Don Mills Rd. and 10 Ferrand Dr. in Toronto was brokered by the team of Nicholas Kendrew and Matthew Rakhit at Cushman & Wakefield.

“What we’re seeing in the market right now are a number of owner-occupiers that, in a post-COVID environment, are analyzing their portfolios and looking at their occupancies and trying to understand if they’re maximizing the use of their own facilities,” Kendrew told RENX. “That’s certainly something that Foresters was looking at very closely.”

Kendrew has also noted some office buildings are being viewed as good residential or industrial redevelopment opportunities, and he believes the Foresters head office could fit into this category.

“Our team has sold close to 650,000 square feet of office in the last three months and only 50,000 of that was to an investor client. The rest was all to developers looking to potentially redevelop with a different use on the site, whether it’s residential or industrial.

“I think Foresters really saw the demand for residential redevelopment and saw significant increases in value over their ownership period and thought now would be a really good time to combine looking at the future of their occupancy while taking advantage of a good time to monetize.”

---------

Residential redevelopment opportunity​

While Menkes hasn’t yet shared specific plans for the property, Kendrew believes the company will reposition it and build out additional residential density.

“There’s a very large surface parking lot, so that would be an obvious starting point. The secondary plan for the area from the city supports some residential intensification on the site.”

View of the Foresters building on Don Mills:

The surface parking lot that runs along Ferrand Drive:

 

[Northern Light]

Menkes acquires Foresters office tower, dev. land in Toronto

Menkes has acquired a 5.1-acre site with a 386,523-square-foot office building, owned and largely occupied by Foresters Financial, which has strong redevelopment potential. The $91.25-million deal for the property at 789-793 Don Mills Rd. and 10 Ferrand Dr. in Toronto

renx.ca

Menkes acquires Foresters office tower, dev. land in Toronto​

Mar 21, 2022





View of the Foresters building on Don Mills:


View attachment 387121


The surface parking lot that runs along Ferrand Drive:


View attachment 387122

The low-hanging fruit on the site is obviously the surface parking.

That portion is ~6800m2 or a bit over 70,000ft2

Based on typical separation distance requirements, this appears to support 2 potential towers.

Aerial Pic:

A look at the parking structure just to the west across Forester's lane suggests a tower may be plausible (just), assuming the existing office tower were retained.

Aerial Pic:

The total area is ~35000ft 2, but a bit more than 1/2 is eaten by separation distance requirements.

* note that I have excluded 'Foresters Lane' from the calculation even though it is part of the site area, as I am assuming the City will require a new public N-S street here.

I have not factored specifically for additional streets beyond that.

Were the office tower component in play, I believe you may see Sonic Way extended to Don Mills.

Were this the case, the office site could still easily manage 2 towers.

If the office site were not divided by a road, and were it developed with the parking structure site it could hold 4 towers for a total build-out of six towers.

I have not factored in on-site park dedication here.

 

[toronto647]

The low-hanging fruit on the site is obviously the surface parking.

That portion is ~6800m2 or a bit over 70,000ft2

Based on typical separation distance requirements, this appears to support 2 potential towers.

Aerial Pic:

View attachment 387123

A look at the parking structure just to the west across Forester's lane suggests a tower may be plausible (just), assuming the existing office tower were retained.

View attachment 387125

Aerial Pic:

View attachment 387126

The total area is ~35000ft 2, but a bit more than 1/2 is eaten by separation distance requirements.

* note that I have excluded 'Foresters Lane' from the calculation even though it is part of the site area, as I am assuming the City will require a new public N-S street here.

I have not factored specifically for additional streets beyond that.

Were the office tower component in play, I believe you may see Sonic Way extended to Don Mills.

Were this the case, the office site could still easily manage 2 towers.

If the office site were not divided by a road, and were it developed with the parking structure site it could hold 4 towers for a total build-out of six towers.

I have not factored in on-site park dedication here.

What are the chances the Forestors tower it self is demolished?


Might as well develop the new block in one shot as opposed to demolishing the forestors tower in 10 years and causing a whole mess in the area cause just south of it is the Rochefort large scale project too.

 

[Northern Light]

What are the chances the Forestors tower it self is demolished?


Might as well develop the new block in one shot as opposed to demolishing the forestors tower in 10 years and causing a whole mess in the area cause just south of it is the Rochefort large scale project too.

@ProjectEnd and @innsertnamehere might be better positioned to speak to that.

My instinct is that if Foresters wants to stay and the building is mostly occupied there isn't much to be gained in trying to tear it down. I'm assuming the City would try to compel replacing the employment use on site; and I'm not clear that the
benefit derived from any additional residential density would be worth it.

But, I could be wrong. To the extent that removing the existing tower optimizes the development footprint, perhaps the $ are there.

The one strong argument I see for it is that it's fairly clear the existing parking will go, and that would leave this tower with little to no parking on-site which may threaten its viability.

Should Forresters which to leave or the building otherwise have high vacancy then that would change things, potentially.

 

[ProjectEnd]

The future presence of the Ontario Line and this building being over 100k/sf would mandate 100% office replacement here. You'd never get the rents to justify a new build here these days, but heck, we could all still be surprised.

As an aside, this and its res-converted sister to the north are the original Olympia & York towers. It all started here.

 

[toronto647]

The future presence of the Ontario Line and this building being over 100k/sf would mandate 100% office replacement here. You'd never get the rents to justify a new build here these days, but heck, we could all still be surprised.

As an aside, this and its res-converted sister to the north are the original Olympia & York towers. It all started here.

Sorry to clarify are you suggesting that it would not make sense tearing down the building and building a new office tower / condos?

 

[ProjectEnd]

Correct.

 

[AlbertC]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550114689035771904

 

[toronto647]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550114689035771904

Would this partnership lead more towards a tear down of the Forestors building? or just towers around it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I suspect towers around it, but I could be surprised. If they do demolish it, office replacement policies would apply.

 

[Northern Light]

This didn't take long...........App is in!

We were all correct @ProjectEnd , and @innsertnamehere the Foresters building is staying........

But I underestimated Menkes ambition here.....they're going to try to squeeze in 4 towers here...... + Foresters

Some very strategic placement of towers, and use of podiums ............and you get something huge that the City won't approve! LOL

I'll post everything below, the teaser is that all 4 tower floor plates are over 800m......

****

Application Details

app.toronto.ca

Note that the ZBA and the Site Plan are both here.

Lets have a look at the Site Plan first:

So, everything new by way of residential is on the Ferrand portion to the site.

But the current 'conference centre' next to the office tower comes down first, as they propose to building parking underneath that and nothing else, to replace what they are losing behind the tower, and then top it with a new POPs

Architect is Sweeney

Renders:

Elevation:

Project Stats:

From the Planning Report:

So....the proposal includes 2-4 levels of above-ground parking in the condos...........which the proponent proposes to wrap in residential at-grade:

Commentary:...........whoa boy..............there's a lot here that I'm not thrilled by and/or planning may take exception to; and something things, that they (planning) will probably be fine with that they should not.

While I'm not particularly phased by the heights, the asks exceed what is proposed/approved at every corner of Don Mills and Eglinton........I do not see that getting approved (at that height)

The Don Mills Secondary Plan for the area contemplates a public road where the private road (Foresters Lane) is maintained/proposed.

The floor plates for the towers all exceed 800m; while, if that goes through, @HousingNowTO would love the precedent, I can't say I see a compelling policy reason for an exception here that the City will buy.

No new retail to support the area.

On parkland..........NO.

Planning may like that this is on-site and an ok'ish size........but its not large enough to create sports facilities; and its literally 1 block from a new under-sized park just down Rochefort.
The developer here should be doing off-site acquisition next to the existing park to grow it to a functional footprint.

One final note, the cumulative impact on schools in this area, of all these proposals is beyond problematic.

A new school proposed across Don Mills will be nowhere near large enough if it has to support all the density now contemplated (and yes, more proposals are coming)..........

 

[Undead]

With two subway lines here, parking should be cut in half. Use some of that space for more community services/spaces instead.

Also, how can anyone call 11s a "podium" with a straight face!'

And 1.5 sq.m. of amenity space seems on the low side; isn't it usually 3-4?

 

[toronto647]

This didn't take long...........App is in!

We were all correct @ProjectEnd , and @innsertnamehere the Foresters building is staying........

But I underestimated Menkes ambition here.....they're going to try to squeeze in 4 towers here...... + Foresters

Some very strategic placement of towers, and use of podiums ............and you get something huge that the City won't approve! LOL

I'll post everything below, the teaser is that all 4 tower floor plates are over 800m......

****

View attachment 420010

Application Details

app.toronto.ca

Note that the ZBA and the Site Plan are both here.

Lets have a look at the Site Plan first:


View attachment 420011

So, everything new by way of residential is on the Ferrand portion to the site.

But the current 'conference centre' next to the office tower comes down first, as they propose to building parking underneath that and nothing else, to replace what they are losing behind the tower, and then top it with a new POPs

Architect is Sweeney

Renders:

View attachment 420012

View attachment 420016
Elevation:

View attachment 420017

Project Stats:

View attachment 420013

From the Planning Report:

View attachment 420014
View attachment 420015
So....the proposal includes 2-4 levels of above-ground parking in the condos...........which the proponent proposes to wrap in residential at-grade:

View attachment 420018


Commentary:...........whoa boy..............there's a lot here that I'm not thrilled by and/or planning may take exception too; and something things, that they (planning) will probably be fine with that they should not.

While I'm not particularly phased by the heights, the asks exceed what is proposed/approved at every corner of Don Mills and Eglinton........I do not see that getting approved (at that height)

The Don Mills Secondary Plan for the area contemplates a public road where the private road (Foresters Lane) is maintained/proposed.

The floor plates for the towers all exceed 800m; while, if that goes through, @HousingNowTO would love the precedent, I can't say I see a compelling policy reason for an exception here that the City will buy.

No new retail to support the area.

On parkland..........NO.

Planning may like that this is on-site and an ok'ish size........but its not large enough to create sports facilities; and its literally 1 block from a new under-sized park just down Rochefort.
The developer here should be doing off-site acquisition next to the existing park to grow it to a functional footprint.

One final note, the cumulative impact on schools in this area, of all these proposals is beyond problematic.

A new school proposed across Don Mills will be nowhere near large enough if it has to support all the density now contemplated (and yes, more proposals are coming)..........

Can you explain what you mean "by the teaser is that all 4 tower floor plates are over 800m......"

I assume that comment is one that everyone understands so I may be missing out due to my lack of knowledge.

Side note - I live close to this project and excited for this. Will bring up property values for me and create a safer feel. The Flemo Social Housing will be gone next kind of like Regent Park.

In 10 years this area will be completely different.

 

[Northern Light]

Can you explain what you mean "by the teaser is that all 4 tower floor plates are over 800m......"

I assume that comment is one that everyone understands so I may be missing out due to my lack of knowledge.

The City of Toronto has 'tall building design guidelines'. These typically limit the size of a floor plate in a condo tower to 750m2.

So all 4 towers being in excess of 800m2 is contrary to the guidelines. Planning is usually a stickler about this, and I can think of less than a handful of exceptions that have been
approved.

Side note - I live close to this project and excited for this. Will bring up property values for me and create a safer feel. The Flemo Social Housing will be gone next kind of like Regent Park.

While Flemingdon Park TCHC is on the long-term rebuild list..........

As with Regent Park there will not be a net reduction in Rent-Geared-to-Income housing when that happens.

Each unit will be replaced; its unlikely any would be shifted out of the general area.

So yes, the buildings will probably be redeveloped, but new TCHC buildings will be built.

Additionally, The prospect of getting those done in the next decade is low. Currently the process for renewing entire TCHC communities is on pause (beyond those underway) and Swansea Mews just went up
to the top of the list of new financial priorities.

From the moment TCHC decides they actually want to pursue a replacement project here, a shovel in the ground is likely 4-5 years away.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

this should be bigger imo.