Toronto 401 Bay Street | 143.86m | 33s | Cadillac Fairview | WZMH

Except that in that telling, it still treats "heritage" patronizingly--more as a plastic-bubble outside annoyance than as part of a broader planning symbiosis. And by portraying it in excessively no-enhancement/modernization "obstructionist" terms, it's a little too reminiscent of homeowners/agents grumbling about how heritage designations mean you can't replace knob-and-tube wiring or whatnot. Which also means, for it to "work" for these parties in question, you'd actually have to not broaden, but euphemistically *rationalize away" Toronto's present-day listable/designatable heritage stock--sort of like a heritage Common Sense Revolution. And that--in effect, your kind of "realism"--is something I reckon the heritage community is likelier to fight than welcome.

Remember, the big-portfolio mentalities we're dealing with are not terribly unlike the mentalities in this article http://torontolife.com/city/mcmansion-wars-neighbour-versus-neighbourh-forest-hill/
in this particular paragraph

The teardown craze in Forest Hill began roughly around the time that North and South Rosedale became Heritage Conservation Districts. These designations came about due to protectionist residents committed to defending the neighbourhood’s “clearly discernible character as a picturesque suburb with varied architectural styles” (as stated in the group’s heritage guidelines). It’s now next to impossible to build a new house in Rosedale, unless you’re willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars at the OMB. Real estate agents and builders actively discourage their clients from buying there. As a result, anyone looking to build a new home in a wealthy neighbourhood close to downtown heads west. Over the past decade, 171 new homes have been built in Forest Hill; in Rosedale, 38. One high-end Toronto builder tells me Rosedale’s historical designations have backfired, particularly in North Rosedale. “The guidelines aren’t creating better streetscapes. They’re saving a lot of houses that aren’t worth saving.”

Is *that* what you'd sympathize with?



And I'm quite certain that the original architects of a whole slew of even older, and designated, and preserved old buildings "knew" that their designs, too, would be "short-lived"; or at least, inevitably consumed by the inevitable ebb and flow of organic urbanity--it would've boggled their minds that "ordinary" commercial frontages along Yonge or Queen or Spadina or whatnot would one day be cherished rally points. Even Edwardian-era futurists could have foreseen, by 2015, something like Old City Hall "inevitably" falling on behalf of a skybridged skyscraper metropolis full of airships and what have you. The comprehensive "preservation mentality" as we know it is only half a century old; and re the original architect's vision, remember that Parkin planned to remake the *entire* Simpson block and (despite whatever claims to OCH being a conscious part of NCH/NPS's urban setting a la CCN relative to Commerce Court) was pretty much resigned to "progress" and whatever fate befell Old City Hall. Like you, the Parkin braintrust would've claimed to be "realistic", even though they were against the grain of the nascent "preservationist mentality". But that's no reason to spite the existing tower as a fait accomplii, much less tut-tut the heritage crowd with "hey, this is what you were rallying against half a century ago, why are you rallying on its behalf now?"

And besides, note that I was purposely allowing for *more* flexibility than the proverbial "hands off designation", even suggesting that the makeover might have been better off if it went *further* in obliterating the existing design and aspect. However, I'm just warning you: given precedent, *if* a heritage listing designation were pursued here presently, in 2015 as opposed to 1975 or 1985 (and factoring out the present scheme underway), if it were up to preservation staff and the heritage community it'd likely pass with flying colours. Notwithstanding your "I just don't see the history or architecture" claim, which betrays either ignorance or hostility as to where the state of the heritage-recognition art is. (And maybe--just as with the Rosedale HCDs--that's what scares the real estate/development vested interests: they know that once the designation-process gears start turning, they *really* need to get the maestro-esque anti-designation lobbyists in place, otherwise they haven't a chance in blazes. Which may even be a reason why the Simpson's scheme came about through a kind of municipal-bureaucratic subterfuge, and we didn't really get a chance to "witness" the actual scheme in full rendering until it was too late.)



In that case, might as well list/designate nothing recent-past other than a select few "obvious landmarks" a la New City Hall--sort of like the post-WWII version of Le Corbusier's "selectivity" (Hey! There's Place Vendome!) in his plans for Paris.

Maestro, you sound like the kind of character who, in accompanying someone pilgrimaging for intact Midcentury Whatever (Don Mills-style housing subdivisions et al), would grumble about how this is all a waste of time because it's all obsolete junk that's falling apart and that clinging to it is like clinging to dial-up or Windows 95. No, you're not "exactly like me"; and if you find any of that water torture by your "realistic" standards, that's your problem...

No where did I say this tower isn't of value. It's one of earliest modern office towers developed. However, I understand its significance is more historical than architectural. The cladding is end of life. It can't be repaired or restored. It needs to be replaced. Enforcing developers to copy the original feels a little extreme. If that makes me a troglodyte than I'll be the best troglodyte I can be.


Now, I really don't see your uncompromising stance as progressive in pushing heritage forward. That unreasonable position by preservationists is likely why heritage was brushed aside for so long. You can't ignore the business side of things. This isn't London where strict heritage laws are also complimented by $200 a square foot lease rates.

You seem to a hard time with this. A prewar masonry building can be repaired and restored for hundreds if not a thousand. A limestone facade can last hundreds of years. Precast, at best, is 50 years. Acrylic stucco on GlassRoc, window wall, SSG curtainwall will be less than that. We are building facades that will need replacing long before there is any appreciation for them. That is all I said.
 
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Enforcing developers to copy the original feels a little extreme. If that makes me a troglodyte than I'll be the best troglodyte I can be.

Unless it's worth doing?

Lever House:

The deteriorated steel subframe was replaced with concealed aluminum glazing channels, a state-of-the-art solution in modern curtain wall technology, which is identical to the original in appearance. All rusted mullions and caps were replaced with new and identical stainless steel mullions and caps. All glass was removed for new panes that are nearly identical to the original, yet meet today's energy codes. Skidmore, Owings and Merrill, the building's architect, also performed the curtain wall replacement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_House

Skidmore-Owings-Merrill-Lever-House-390-ParkAvenue-New-York-1951-Front-of-Building.jpg

 

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Lever rents at +/- $140 psf depending on floor and contract idiosyncrasies. Simpson (according to the PDF linked earlier in this thread) is planning to rent at $23.40 psf after these 'upgrades'.

I do love Simpson but to compare the two is totally disingenuous.
 
Lever rents at +/- $140 psf depending on floor and contract idiosyncrasies. Simpson (according to the PDF linked earlier in this thread) is planning to rent at $23.40 psf after these 'upgrades'.

I do love Simpson but to compare the two is totally disingenuous.

Admittedly, Lever House is the creme-de-la-creme of modernist renovations. However, a closer comparison could be Oxford's exquisite renovation of 111 Richmond West, which in fact marketed the building as a modernist "Mad Men" classic:

111 Richmond was fully redevloped in 2011 to its current status as a Class A LEED Gold-CS Certified building. The heritage features, orignially designed by world-renowned architect Peter Dickinson were the inspiration for the revitalization and feature prominently in the lobby and exterior of the building.

http://www.oxfordproperties.com/leasing/en/office/property/111-richmond-st-west

Could it be that whoever was handling the Simpson Tower file for CF simply had less imagination than his counterpart at Oxford?
 
Lever rents at +/- $140 psf depending on floor and contract idiosyncrasies. Simpson (according to the PDF linked earlier in this thread) is planning to rent at $23.40 psf after these 'upgrades'.

I do love Simpson but to compare the two is totally disingenuous.

You sure this is apples to apples; 23 is only gross rent; net rent is probably closer to 50 <-> 80.
 
No where did I say this tower isn't of value. It's one of earliest modern office towers developed. However, I understand its significance is more historical than architectural. The cladding is end of life. It can't be repaired or restored. It needs to be replaced. Enforcing developers to copy the original feels a little extreme. If that makes me a troglodyte than I'll be the best troglodyte I can be.

Is that it?

If I may tell you this, that paragraph (esp. the first two sentences) betrays how rudimentary and amateurish your grasp of recent Toronto architectural history is--perhaps in a bit of a "is that all you have to say?!?" sense. "One of the earliest modern office towers developed"? I mean, under the circumstances, you're no better than the amateur numbskulls who continue to feel that the NPS walkways are an ugly eyesore that should be ripped down. My recommendation to you is: bone up, or shaddup. (And all the more so that you're *still* referring to the tower in isolation of anything context-wise.)

Now, I really don't see your uncompromising stance as progressive in pushing heritage forward. That unreasonable position by preservationists is likely why heritage was brushed aside for so long. You can't ignore the business side of things. This isn't London where strict heritage laws are also complimented by $200 a square foot lease rates.

Actually, a big reason why heritage was brushed aside for so long (let's say, until the 1960s) is that there *wasn't* the modern-day kind of preservationist movement. Just as there wasn't the modern-day kind of environmentalist movement, or the modern-day kind of feminist movement, or the modern-day kind of equal-rights movements of one sort or another (race-based, queer-based, etc.) It had nothing to do with it being "uncompromising"--it's just that it didn't have the institutional clout vs the call of "progress".

And besides: for the umpteenthillionth time, I'm *not* being "uncompromising". I'm being realistic in portraying the actuality of what heritage means in this day and age--*and* the political context in which it operates, which helps explain why it's fantasy to think that heritage laws and listings and designations are based upon "pure" judgment. Politics and lobbying from all sides explains why certain buildings are, certain buildings aren't, etc etc. Always has been; always will be.

However, if there *were* a "pure judgment": in this day and age, it'd likelier be expansive than reductive, acknowledging the full spectrum of cherishability and importance. That's not being "uncompromising" (in fact, it can ideally involve a lot of flexibility in building treatment); that's just reality. And yes: it *would* to whatever degree include the Simpson Tower, whether on grounds of architectural significance (yes, it exists), landmark
value (particularly as a SE visual anchor to the NPS context), or as a logical extension of the existing Simpson's store designation now that it's no longer "too new" for consideration.

And in that light, the biggest *barrier* to "pure judgment" would be to allow things to get too coloured by "the business side of things", i.e. you're not going to get any Ed Glaeser acolytes running that particular ship. Not to mention the "tear down all Brutalism!" nitwit populist crowd. Or those real estate clods who think that HCDs were the ruin of Rosedale, etc etc.

You seem to a hard time with this. A prewar masonry building can be repaired and restored for hundreds if not a thousand. A limestone facade can last hundreds of years. Precast, at best, is 50 years. Acrylic stucco on GlassRoc, window wall, SSG curtainwall will be less than that. We are building facades that will need replacing long before there is any appreciation for them. That is all I said.

Then why is there *currently* appreciation for the "that which needs replacing" stuff from the 50s/60s/70s? Even the flimsiest of the flimsy (think in former Soviet Bloc terms) has a serious cult following and fan base--and besides, just because the materials are defective doesn't mean you have to throw the aesthetic baby out with the bathwater.

Or, when it comes to the so-called dysfunctional/falling-apart/etc, take something like this.

RudolphCtr.jpg


When it comes to "pure" heritage judgment, this'd absolutely qualify, no question--"despite it all". What wrote it off was political decree, not heritage decree.
 
And really; this pattern of discussion shouldn't be so unilaterally about "heritage" at all--or at least, some kind of reasonably competent working heritage/historical consciousness/cognizance ought to be thoroughly baked into the system.

Doesn't Toronto have a design review panel? In a critical location like this, such a panel ought to have had a say.
 
Doesn't Toronto have a design review panel? In a critical location like this, such a panel ought to have had a say.

As the recladding was not a rezoning and not subject to Site Plan Review, all CF had to do was apply for a building permit and no other agencies were involved. However, if one looks at the mandate for the DRP, the "threshold" for their involvement is as follows:

The Toronto DRP will review: i. All publically-initiated projects containing significant visual and physical public realm impacts (e.g. Environmental Assessments, new buildings such as police stations, fire halls and libraries, new parks, and new policies which contain public realm implications); ii. All large-scale site plan and rezoning applications within the Design Review Districts noted herein; and iii. Applications which contain significant public realm impacts as a result of their location, scale, form or architectural quality, if they are located along: ▪ an Avenue (see OP map 2); ▪ a Major Street (see OP Map 3); or ▪ a Surface Transit Priority Corridor (see OP Map 4 and Map 5)

http://www1.toronto.ca/city_of_toro..._design/files/pdf/design-review-districts.pdf

According to their own criteria, this should have gone to the DRP. Perhaps someone could ask Ms. Keesmaat to comment?
 
The Building Code Act requires the Chief Building Official to issue permits as long as the work complies with the Building Code, the zoning by-law and other applicable law. There is nothing that would have permitted Buildings to delay permit issuance to allow for a visit to the DRP.
 
The Building Code Act requires the Chief Building Official to issue permits as long as the work complies with the Building Code, the zoning by-law and other applicable law. There is nothing that would have permitted Buildings to delay permit issuance to allow for a visit to the DRP.

Agree 100%. The problem lies with Planning and its lack of foresight in both the heritage and urban design fronts (both portfolios ultimately resting with the Director of Urban Design, Harold Madi.)
 
Re my "baked into the system" point: by way of anecdote, I have one family member who in her cooking, has had a stubborn habit of not adding salt to water, but using it as a "garnish" instead. Which has made for some pretty limp pasta over the years.

It's sort of analogous to the way I've seen the notion of "heritage" treated by many in UT over the years: as a garnish-like "external thing". Which makes for a pretty limp understanding of the subtle, warts-and-all, God-bless-these-paradoxes richness of urbanity as a whole, its back stories, etc.

And incidentally, for all the criticism Mirvish/Gehry took over its proposed demolitions, a kind of heritage et al consciousness *was* baked into its package--that's why its promoters felt justifiably confident in taking the risks they took. So yes, it's *far* more subtle than freezing defective and dysfunctional old buildings in amber. Ditto with something like the FCP reclad--in fact, these schemes were presented openly as things to digest, to celebrate, to welcome discussion. Whereas Simpson's seems to have come out from under a cloud; it isn't just that the design's defective, it's that there seems to be no "celebration" behind it other than the dreariest corporate-landlord literature. And to say the least, given the ensemble it's integral to, it's like none of the Bonnie Brooks types had any say here--it's like it's totally alien to the Bay/Simpsons legacy of style and elegance, something which even the Simpson Tower upheld in its late 60s corporate-modern way. It's shockingly...un-fabulous.

At this point, may I suggest a nickname for the revamped Simpson's Tower: "The Homer". Maybe, especially once it re-emerges from its scaffolding, it'll catch on...

latest
 
At this point, may I suggest a nickname for the revamped Simpson's Tower: "The Homer". Maybe, especially once it re-emerges from its scaffolding, it'll catch on...

latest

Dialogue from an episode aired in 2003:

Lisa: I'm impressed that you drew up blueprints, but these are for a go-cart track.
Homer: Did Frank Lloyd Wright have to deal with people like you?
Lisa: Actually, Frank Lloyd Wright endured a lot of harsh criticism.
Homer: Look. I have no idea who Frank Lloyd Wright is.
Lisa: You said his name two seconds ago.
Homer: I was just putting words together.

http://curbed.com/archives/2015/03/10/architecture-in-the-simpsons-sam-simon.php#more
 

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