Toronto 2280 Dundas West | 127.5m | 38s | Choice Properties | Hariri Pontarini

[A Torontonian Now]

It seems Choice is not going to keep doing planning work to the benefit of the Board, focusing just on their own property.

From Councillor Perks' recent newsletter to constituents:

 

[smably]

Lots of materials have dropped on https://bloordundas.ca/.

I'll post a selection below.

First, from the cover letter, some unfortunate but understandable changes due to stalled negotiations with the school boards. It seems that after four years, Choice wanted to get moving on this:

The plan, before and after:

The stats, before:

The stats, after:

The new plan seems like a major downgrade in nearly every way. I hope it's just a hedge and that negotiations with the school boards continue.

New site plan:

Dundas elevation:

Same elevation with program overlay:

Landscape overview:

Here's a cool diagram showing the massing of the proposed and approved developments in the area:

I'll split some of the new renders into a separate post.

 

[smably]

 

[Northern Light]

Lots of materials have dropped on https://bloordundas.ca/.

I'll post a selection below.

First, from the cover letter, some unfortunate but understandable changes due to stalled negotiations with the school boards. It seems that after four years, Choice wanted to get moving on this:
View attachment 411876

The plan, before and after:
View attachment 411875

The stats, before:
View attachment 411877

The stats, after:
View attachment 411878

The new plan seems like a major downgrade in nearly every way. I hope it's just a hedge and that negotiations with the school boards continue.

New site plan:
View attachment 411879

Dundas elevation:
View attachment 411881

Same elevation with program overlay:
View attachment 411880

Landscape overview:
View attachment 411882

Here's a cool diagram showing the massing of the proposed and approved developments in the area:
View attachment 411883

I'll split some of the new renders into a separate post.

The exclusion of the school sites does not serve the plan or the community well.

I have no idea what the obstacle to a deal was/is, but some heads should be proverbially knocked together to get to a deal.

I wasn't entirely happy w/the previous plan; but it does make all the sense in the world that the school, school yard and park should be sited at the south end of the lands, and thus be largely free from shadow; while
the density, which can animate the street edge should be concentrated more at the northern/Bloor frontage.

If this gets built this way, it puts the school board into a proverbial pickle in which they can get money from a land sale, but probably can't relocate on-site (where all the density is)......and the subway..........; and it just opens a completely needless can
of worms and/or precludes the gains that could be achieved here entirely.

 

[3Dementia]

I guess this is still HPA-designed. I'd venture the one exception to the plan downgrade is the architecture/massing/materials (imo).

 

[Amare]

Ugh this is so frustrating, can they just please get to an agreement because this doesnt help any of the parties involved. I dont know what/who is holding up the initial plans but I have my suspicions it's the TDSB. The TDCSB moves relatively quickly with projects they have on the table, and the TDSB...well they have a very funny way of getting anything done and that's putting it kindly. Does it take a school to be at a near crumbling state for them to light a fire under their $@$# to get something done? It's a prime opportunity for them to replace a school, without having to go through the tricky route of phasing in a replacement school in the future so I dont know what on earth is the snag.

It's also possible Choice is playing very hardball with terms of agreement/phasing. I'd love to be the fly on the wall to hear what's going on with this.

 

[Northern Light]

Ugh this is so frustrating, can they just please get to an agreement because this doesnt help any of the parties involved. I dont know what/who is holding up the initial plans but I have my suspicions it's the TDSB. The TDCSB moves relatively quickly with projects they have on the table, and the TDSB...well they have a very funny way of getting anything done and that's putting it kindly. Does it take a school to be at a near crumbling state for them to light a fire under their $@$# to get something done? It's a prime opportunity for them to replace a school, without having to go through the tricky route of phasing in a replacement school in the future so I dont know what on earth is the snag.

It's also possible Choice is playing very hardball with terms of agreement/phasing. I'd love to be the fly on the wall to hear what's going on with this.

While I agree its frustrating, I wouldn't pre-judge the culprits/reasoning.

Its certainly an odd-ball situation in that the owner is the TDSB; but the occupier is the TDCSB.

A note here, if the TDSB moves to dispose of the site, as a matter of provincial law, they must first offer the site to other school boards, then to the city, before selling on the open market.

We don't know if the TDCSB is insisting on its right to make an offer; or if one of the French boards are...........

It's really important to get the facts out.......in the open.............where we can have an informed discussion of the issues.

 

[Amare]

While I agree its frustrating, I wouldn't pre-judge the culprits/reasoning.

Its certainly an odd-ball situation in that the owner is the TDSB; but the occupier is the TDCSB.

A note here, if the TDSB moves to dispose of the site, as a matter of provincial law, they must first offer the site to other school boards, then to the city, before selling on the open market.

We don't know if the TDCSB is insisting on its right to make an offer; or if one of the French boards are...........

It's really important to get the facts out.......in the open.............where we can have an informed discussion of the issues.

Very valid points on all fronts.

Which leads me to my next question, do we have any spies here that are associated in some way with the TDSB, TDSCB, Choice Properties, etc.?

 

[interchange42]

Our reporter Stephanie Calvet got in contact with Choice Properties to put together a piece on the updated plans for this site. You find it on the front page here.

42

 

[Northern Light]

We already got a look at the docs on this one through the above posts, but as the application was filed with the City I thought we ought to add the link to the application:

Development Applications

City Planning COA Application Information Center

app.toronto.ca

 

[Jimto]

It is truly insane that the school boards and the developer cannot come to some agreement to move the school to the south end of this site.

When this project was first proposed, I spoke with the TCDSB trustee for the area (at the Choice public meeting) and she had no prior knowledge of the development proposal to include the school site. She was not opposed to it but saw the ownership/long term lease of the property as very significant obstacles.

 

[toaster29]

Is there anything stopping TDSB from evicting TCDSB here and just working with the developer, and having the new school be a new school for everyone (and not just catholics)?

 

[Northern Light]

Is there anything stopping TDSB from evicting TCDSB here and just working with the developer, and having the new school be a new school for everyone (and not just catholics)?

Yes.

Aside from whatever lease terms are in place........

As a matter of law, when a school board moves to sell property, it must offer first right of refusal to other school boards, then to the greater MUSH sector (municipalities, universities, schools, hospitals).

Those other agencies have to pay assessed market value, but that would be on existing, not prospective zoning. (so far I understand)

 

[toaster29]

Yes.

Aside from whatever lease terms are in place........

As a matter of law, when a school board moves to sell property, it must offer first right of refusal to other school boards, then to the greater MUSH sector (municipalities, universities, schools, hospitals).

Those other agencies have to pay assessed market value, but that would be on existing, not prospective zoning. (so far I understand)

I'd be interested in seeing the terms of that lease. If the TDSB co-develops the land as a new school, I don't see why they would first have to offer it to the other boards, since it would just be like a school renovation on the lands. Anyway, just adding my thoughts at how ludicrous it is that we have publicly funded catholic schools in Toronto - the most diverse city in the world, where we can have kids go through schooling without ever having a teacher (or peers) wearing a hijab, or being gay, or jewish. Defund this system now. Build public schools for all students. Stop with the barriers to entry into public facilities.

 

[Northern Light]

I'd be interested in seeing the terms of that lease. If the TDSB co-develops the land as a new school, I don't see why they would first have to offer it to the other boards, since it would just be like a school renovation on the lands. Anyway, just adding my thoughts at how ludicrous it is that we have publicly funded catholic schools in Toronto - the most diverse city in the world, where we can have kids go through schooling without ever having a teacher (or peers) wearing a hijab, or being gay, or jewish. Defund this system now. Build public schools for all students. Stop with the barriers to entry into public facilities.

I agree w/abolition of the Separate School Board, though, I would merge its assets, which are almost entirely funded from the public purse to the public board, not simply let it go on as a parochial, un-funded system.