Toronto 2150 Lake Shore | 215.75m | 67s | First Capital | Allies and Morrison

[Undead]

A family of 3 or even 4 does not need 1400+ square feet. That's overkill. Layouts are a much bigger problem - many units are very poorly laid out. I would argue that with an effective layout, a family of three will be perfectly fine with as little as 900 sq.ft. Maybe push it to 1100 to be completely comfortable.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

...right under the NIMBY stop sign...

Come to think of it now, that must of went over as well as discussing the benefits of income redistribution in Tr*mpland...

 

[W. K. Lis]

A family of 3 or even 4 does not need 1400+ square feet. That's overkill. Layouts are a much bigger problem - many units are very poorly laid out. I would argue that with an effective layout, a family of three will be perfectly fine with as little as 900 sq.ft. Maybe push it to 1100 to be completely comfortable.

One problem I find is that hallways (and staircases in multi-level homes) are included in the square foot quotes given.

 

[toaster29]

Hmm... no low density housing near by, great public transportation, established tall buildings in the area for decades and nothing worth preserving. This site screams for density.

There is no great public transportation here - not now, and not in the plans. This type of density is suited for subway rapid/transit, not in traffic streetcar/bus, or regional rail I don't think there is an area in the city further away from a subway station - with the kind of density we see here. I moved out of the area a few months ago - glad I'm gone. Keesmat is a big reason this area lacks proper infrastructure, but also the City repeatedly lowballing population projections for this area in all of their planning.

 

[W. K. Lis]

There is no great public transportation here - not now, and not in the plans. This type of density is suited for subway rapid/transit, not in traffic streetcar/bus, or regional rail I don't think there is an area in the city further away from a subway station - with the kind of density we see here. I moved out of the area a few months ago - glad I'm gone. Keesmat is a big reason this area lacks proper infrastructure, but also the City repeatedly lowballing population projections for this area in all of their planning.

What part of the proposed Park Lawn GO Station and the waterfront west LRT do you consider "no great public transportion"?

From link.

From link.

First Capital REIT (FCR) has proposed to build a new GO Station to be developed in partnership with Metrolinx and located at the north end of the former Mr. Christie Cookie Factory, municipally known as 2150 Lake Shore Boulevard West. The proposed GO Station is envisioned to be on both sides of the Lakeshore West rail corridor, and both sides of Park Lawn Road in the City of Toronto. The proposed GO Station is anticipated to evolve into a multi-modal transportation hub that would provide improved local and regional transit access and connectivity. GO Transit currently operates train service along the Lakeshore West Corridor, from Union Station in Toronto to West Harbour, in Hamilton and Niagara Falls. The proposed GO Station has the opportunity to provide a new stop along the Lakeshore West rail corridor between Exhibition and Mimico Stations.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

What part of the proposed Park Lawn GO Station and the waterfront west LRT do you consider "no great public transportion"?

From link.

From link.

Completely agree with you. However, these projects can't come in fast enough. And while Allies & Morrison are ambitious about delivering a GO station in about 5 years (fingers crossed), the City official plan to start the construction of Waterfront West LRT can be best described as "some time this century"

However, the 2 plans are somewhat redundant as far as HBS is concerned. A trip by GO from Mimico to Union takes about 10 minutes. Once the new Park Lawn GO station goes operational, it will serve the rapid transit needs of Humber Bay Shores just fine.

 

[Amare]

Completely agree with you. However, these projects can't come in fast enough. And while Allies & Morrison are ambitious about delivering a GO station in about 5 years (fingers crossed), the City official plan to start the construction of Waterfront West LRT can be best described as "some time this century"

However, the 2 plans are somewhat redundant as far as HBS is concerned. A trip by GO from Mimico to Union takes about 10 minutes. Once the new Park Lawn GO station goes operational, it will serve the rapid transit needs of Humber Bay Shores just fine.

I don't know about expanded GO train service, serving the needs of Humber Bay just fine. Not everyone is heading to Union or the surrounding area as their destination point, and let's remember that the existing GO fare structure acts as a detriment/barrier to many.

Of course there have been musings of a restructured GO fare system, but with the current provincial government in power don't hold your breath on that ever happening. Heck, if another provincial party replaces them, I still wouldn't even hold my breath on the current status quo changing either.

As you mentioned, the Waterfront West LRT has been in the planning stages for more than 30 years now, and that's where it's probably going to stay for the next 30 years minimum knowing how this city operates. As it currently stands, the only concrete transit improvement in the books are a Park Lawn GO station with ~30min frequency. Much better than nothing, but certainly not enough for an area that's going to have densest population in Canada when all is said and done.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

I don't know about expanded GO train service, serving the needs of Humber Bay just fine. Not everyone is heading to Union or the surrounding area as their destination point, and let's remember that the existing GO fare structure acts as a detriment/barrier to many.

Of course there have been musings of a restructured GO fare system, but with the current provincial government in power don't hold your breath on that ever happening. Heck, if another provincial party replaces them, I still wouldn't even hold my breath on the current status quo changing either.

As you mentioned, the Waterfront West LRT has been in the planning stages for more than 30 years now, and that's where it's probably going to stay for the next 30 years minimum knowing how this city operates. As it currently stands, the only concrete transit improvement in the books are a Park Lawn GO station with ~30min frequency. Much better than nothing, but certainly not enough for an area that's going to have densest population in Canada when all is said and done.

Yes, I left out some assumptions from my response:
1. I am hopeful the provincial government will integrate City of Toronto GO stations into a single TTC fare. That is, after the current government gets voted out.
2. Given the above point, 10 minute commute to Union with no added cost connectivity to TTC makes Park Lawn GO a super attractive option to commute anywhere.
3. Hopefully GO electrification gets off the ground some time this century
4. Even without point #3 above, once the true ridership numbers come in for Park Lawn GO, I can't see it being anything other than a 15 min frequency station. The 30 min compromise with alternating service with Mimico GO is nothing more than a bureaucratic smokescreen to ram the initial business case through, in my humble opinion.

Obviously, this is all very wishful thinking, I know...

 

[Undead]

. Not everyone is heading to Union or the surrounding area as their destination point

IIRC about 55% of HBS residents work downtown so the GO station should work for most people. But yes, local bus and streetcar service should also be improved.

 

[toaster29]

What part of the proposed Park Lawn GO Station and the waterfront west LRT do you consider "no great public transportion"?

From link.

From link.

The Waterfront West LRT is great, but it isn't going to happen for another 30+ years, so if we are okay waiting that long to start this development, then fine. As for the Park Lawn GO, well, it is regional rail - not local public transit. So, to get to and from work, sure. But for people who want to go anywhere else, people at HBS use their cars. We should want to get away from that. Also there was talk about only every second trip stopping at Park Lawn (and the others stopping at Mimico) - not sure if this is still in the plans. The City should be requiring First Capital to pay for part of the new LRT.

 

[Amare]

The City should be requiring First Capital to pay for part of the new LRT.

First Capital is already doing the city a solid in that they are offering to build the new Park Lawn GO station, as well as a future northern relief road. The GO Station is technically a "mandatory pre-requisite" by the city, whatever that means.

To be honest, First Capital is already going over and above what's required, and most other developers would've probably bucked the city's impositions and done whatever they wanted to.

The city should get their heads out of their collective a**** and actually start constructing the Waterfront West LRT. Enough of the studies, and putting it the never ending list of "approved but unfunded projects". The problems that we today with traffic flow in the area have been caused by the city, and ultimately it's up to the city to rectify what they created.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

First Capital is already doing the city a solid in that they are offering to build the new Park Lawn GO station, as well as a future northern relief road. The GO Station is technically a "mandatory pre-requisite" by the city, whatever that means.

To be honest, First Capital is already going over and above what's required, and most other developers would've probably bucked the city's impositions and done whatever they wanted to.

The city should get their heads out of their collective a**** and actually start constructing the Waterfront West LRT. Enough of the studies, and putting it the never ending list of "approved but unfunded projects". The problems that we today with traffic flow in the area have been caused by the city, and ultimately it's up to the city to rectify what they created.

First Capital even designed a road layout in this master plan that is practically begging the city to put in an LRT loop connecting with Park Lawn GO.

If this city was smart, an LRT would be built coinciding with construction for Park Lawn GO and 2150 Lake Shore.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Nothing will happen with transit improvements in the Park Lawn/Lake Shore area until AFTER The Queensway reconstruction, in 2021-2022. See link.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

Toronto website where you could comment or 'suggest an idea'. here https://engage.toronto.ca/projects/city-planning/christies-planning-study-public-engagement/

I mean - we can share our thoughts, and vote on that site, so...

That is correct, the page still says:
Please note that the commenting period is now closed. If you would like to submit a comment, please contact Laura.Pfeifer@toronto.ca
I submitted my feedback and got the confirmation from Laura that my feedback has been added to the public record.

So, if anyone in this forum thread wants to share their thoughts with the City planners, you are still free to do so.

 

[Dec_1999]

There is no great public transportation here - not now, and not in the plans. This type of density is suited for subway rapid/transit, not in traffic streetcar/bus, or regional rail I don't think there is an area in the city further away from a subway station - with the kind of density we see here. I moved out of the area a few months ago - glad I'm gone. Keesmat is a big reason this area lacks proper infrastructure, but also the City repeatedly lowballing population projections for this area in all of their planning.

The waterfront LRT is of this point in time being studied to be extended to parklawn, so there will be good transit here to support density. There is also a ferry option being studied as well as a GO station as you know.