Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

[Admiral Beez]

Unlike the U.S. which encourages people to assimilate the existing culture, we've spent the last 40 years telling newcomers that their culture is what matters, we've even funded the teaching of it.

Damn straight! You Canucks have to accomodate me, it's the rules of multiculturalism. When my family and I immigrated here in the 1970s we demanded that everyone speak our language, that the government and judicial systems be made to accomodate what we're used to back home, that our monarch appear on all the coinage and that her representative be given a high office above the elected PM.

Seriously though, Canada really doesn't have much of a Brit-expat community here. Not like in Oz. Here in Canada us Brits quickly assiminated into the POWP (Plain Old White People), consisting of all the other immigrants from Europe. Of course, what does it even mean to be British? To me British is having a British passport (like my Canuck born kids) - while I am English by birth and ethnicity.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

80% of the growth of Canada now is due to immigration from places wholly unlike Canada. Unlike the U.S. which encourages people to assimilate the existing culture, we've spent the last 40 years telling newcomers that their culture is what matters, we've even funded the teaching of it. So now we're supposed to spend $10 billion (or so) in a last-ditch effort to promote it? Gone are the days of 1972, Russia-Canada hockey tournaments. The people here now are more interested in how their home country is doing in soccer than how Canada is doing. The dwindling Anglo population will be your only boosters.

My parent are immigrants and I agree completely. We should still have high levels of immigration but we should also focus on assimilating new Canadians into Canadian culture.

 

[MisterF]

My parent are immigrants and I agree completely. We should still have high levels of immigration but we should also focus on assimilating new Canadians into Canadian culture.

Again, Canada does focus on assimilating new Canadians into Canadian culture. That's what the multiculturalism program does. It teaches languages and skills, encourages participation in the larger society, and brings immigrants from different backgrounds together. Multiculturalism being about making people stay within their original culture at the expense of integrating into Canadian society is a complete myth.

 

[kkgg7]

My parent are immigrants and I agree completely. We should still have high levels of immigration but we should also focus on assimilating new Canadians into Canadian culture.

like what? I wanted to watch Canadian TV, there is little; I wanted to watch Canadian movies, there is little; I wanted to listen to Canadian pop music, couldn't find much. Apparently you can't watch hockey games everyday.
Even Canadians didn't enjoy much non-American Canadian culture, how can immigrants.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

like what? I wanted to watch Canadian TV, there is little; I wanted to watch Canadian movies, there is little; I wanted to listen to Canadian pop music, couldn't find much. Apparently you can't watch hockey games everyday.
Even Canadians didn't enjoy much non-American Canadian culture, how can immigrants.

Don't tell me that there isn't Canadian music. 25 to 60% of what we listen to on the radio is Canadian music. Even in the United States a substancial amount of music played is Canadian. You're either choosing to ignore Canadian music, or you are listening to music while not realizing that much of it is Canadian.

 

[Tewder]

like what? I wanted to watch Canadian TV, there is little; I wanted to watch Canadian movies, there is little; I wanted to listen to Canadian pop music, couldn't find much. Apparently you can't watch hockey games everyday.
Even Canadians didn't enjoy much non-American Canadian culture, how can immigrants.

For me, the 'appreciation' of Canadian culture is one thing but it is equally important that newcomers and immigrants should be encouraged to contribute to it, pushing it further and forward. Celebrating the homeland in a local community centre is lovely but not very engaging and certainly not very innovative, which is what I find so underwhelming about pseudo Chinese arches and mock English pubs. It's a mindset that celebrates the derivative, constantly looking backwards over its shoulder. It's a little sad, quite frankly.

It is inspiring when we see newcomers embrace certain parts of a traditional or more established Canada while infusing these things with ideas or a sensibility that they bring with them. The intersection of these ideas creates something new that if embraced can very quickly become very Canadian (and even iconic over time). I think Ice Wine is just one of many possible examples.

 

[TOareaFan]

like what? I wanted to watch Canadian TV, there is little; I wanted to watch Canadian movies, there is little; I wanted to listen to Canadian pop music, couldn't find much. Apparently you can't watch hockey games everyday.
Even Canadians didn't enjoy much non-American Canadian culture, how can immigrants.

It certainly takes a little effort to watch Canadian movies...although it is doable. Canadian TV or Canadian Music, though, is easily accessible. Of course the broader word "culture" encompasses more than TV/Movies/Music but in the modern vernacular "media" and culture have, somehow, become synonyms.

 

[kkgg7]

It certainly takes a little effort to watch Canadian movies...although it is doable. Canadian TV or Canadian Music, though, is easily accessible. Of course the broader word "culture" encompasses more than TV/Movies/Music but in the modern vernacular "media" and culture have, somehow, become synonyms.

it is doable, but is it enjoyable? What percentage of movies you watched in the past 2 years are Canadian? I bet it is lower than 5%.
I agree with you that culture is broader than TV/movie/music, but in that broader context, it is even harder for immigrants, me included, to get to enjoy something uniquely Canadian. Food? there is no Canadian food. lifestyle? totally Americanized. other cutural events, that's Irish, Carribean, Chinese, Italian etc. You can't call that Canadian. Freedom and democracy? that exists in many other countries.

I will finally get my Canadian passport in a few weeks, and I have no idea what that means to me, and I don't feel any excitement or pride, and I believe many new Canadians feel the same. The only reason I applied was for the benefit ot travelling to many countries without visa requirements, and I do like travelling.

 

[Tewder]

I will finally get my Canadian passport in a few weeks, and I have no idea what that means to me, and I don't feel any excitement or pride, and I believe many new Canadians feel the same. The only reason I applied was for the benefit ot travelling to many countries without visa requirements, and I do like travelling.

That's very sad for you. My partner is American and cannot wait to be Canadian. Granted, as an American who has lived here for a number of years now he may be better able to identify and appreciate the often subtle yet significant differences between us than somebody from further afield or somebody who is new to Canada...

Canadians themselves do understand implicitly and believe whole-heartedly that they are significantly and substantially different from Americans despite our proximity and despite the enormity of their cultural output, and this is something that has evolved out of history. The fact that you are obviously not knowledgeable of this history doesn't mean it doesn't exist... to which, in the end your comments are basically ignorant, no different than some rube here believing that since all 'Orientals' look the same they must be the same.

In other words your comments say more about your ignorance than they do any true lack of Canadian culture, quite simply, which isn't surprising if to you Canada is simply a 'passport'... and in fact you might take a moment to reflect on the history of that passport and ask yourself why it is such a great one to hold before being so cavalierly dismissive of the country that offers it!! Just saying.

 

[kkgg7]

That's very sad for you. My partner is American and cannot wait to be Canadian. Granted, as an American who has lived here for a number of years now he may be better able to identify and appreciate the often subtle yet significant differences between us than somebody from further afield or somebody who is new to Canada...

Canadians themselves do understand implicitly and believe whole-heartedly that they are significantly and substantially different from Americans despite our proximity and despite the enormity of their cultural output, and this is something that has evolved out of history. The fact that you are obviously not knowledgeable of this history doesn't mean it doesn't exist... to which, in the end your comments are basically ignorant, no different than some rube here believing that since all 'Orientals' look the same they must be the same.

In other words your comments say more about your ignorance than they do any true lack of Canadian culture, quite simply, which isn't surprising if to you Canada is simply a 'passport'... and in fact you might take a moment to reflect on the history of that passport and ask yourself why it is such a great one to hold before being so cavalierly dismissive of the country that offers it!! Just saying.

I never said Canadian culture is exactly the same as American culture, in fact, how American culture is even relevant in this at all? Your emphasis on the subtle yet significant difference seems to strengthen the common belief that Canadian culture is built on the basis of being not American. For example, Koreans never say we have a Korean culture because there is significant different between us and Japan/China.

"Since all orientals look the same?" LOL. I can tell who is Chinese, Korean or Japanese 90% of the time in 2 minutes without them talking a word. That's how culture influence one's most subtle movement and gesture, as well as how they dress and style themselves. They are quite different. On the other hand, can you tell the difference between a Canadian and an American? Hardly anyone can.

I am not dismissive of Canada. I am only telling the truth that as a young country, it has yet to develop a whole set of its own culture and tradition that is vastly different from the rest of the world, particularly its southern neighbour that influences it tremendously, and that's a fair assessment IMO. Canada is a great country, but is simply not that culturally distinctive.

 

[Tulse]

as a young country, it has yet to develop a whole set of its own culture and tradition that is vastly different from the rest of the world, particularly its southern neighbour that influences it tremendously

I'm from that southern neighbour, and I can state categorically that your claim is simply incorrect. Canada may share a lot of popular culture with the US (and the rest of the world), but in terms of social and political values it is vastly different. And there is solid polling evidence to back this up.

 

[Johnny Au]

Canadians have their own cultural exports. Have you heard of the likes of Justin Bieber, Jim Carrey, Alex Trebek, Howie Mandel, and so on and so forth? Believe it or not, most Western children's animation in the United States is made by or distributed by Nelvana of Toronto or Cookie Jar Entertainment of Toronto. Canadian food? There is poutine. Canadians tend to view religion as less important to their lives than Americans view it. Canadians trust the government more than Americans trust them in general.

 

[TOareaFan]

...... there is no Canadian food. lifestyle? totally Americanized........

I never said Canadian culture is exactly the same as American culture, in fact, how American culture is even relevant in this at all?

Forgive me if I admit to having trouble connecting the dots in those two statements

 

[Tewder]

I never said Canadian culture is exactly the same as American culture, in fact, how American culture is even relevant in this at all?

I agree with TOareaFan. By stating that Canada has no culture and that we are completely Americanized it is you who is making American culture 'relevant'... to which:

Your emphasis on the subtle yet significant difference seems to strengthen the common belief that Canadian culture is built on the basis of being not American.

Not so, because that would imply that American culture predates Canadian culture or is somehow the 'original' culture that Canada is an offshoot of. This simply isn't true, they both evolved at the same time.

... and I'm not denying that many Canadians define themselves by what they are not, but I think we can all agree that this is a fairly facile approach to take when it comes to understanding our history, our ethos and our evolving future.

"Since all orientals look the same?" LOL. I can tell who is Chinese, Korean or Japanese 90% of the time in 2 minutes without them talking a word. That's how culture influence one's most subtle movement and gesture, as well as how they dress and style themselves. They are quite different. On the other hand, can you tell the difference between a Canadian and an American? Hardly anyone can.

... but you just proved my point! You can perceive cultural differences that I can't... can you not by extension understand that Canadians and Americans might be capable of the same nuances of perception? I agree that this might be difficult upon first sight but you only have to observe for a short while before you could venture a reasoned guess.

... and as for me, unless she's wearing a kimono I really don't think I could point out a Japanese lady from a Chinese one or a Thai one, for example. And really, how many Japanese women are wearing Kimonos these days??

"I am not dismissive of Canada. I am only telling the truth that as a young country, it has yet to develop a whole set of its own culture and tradition that is vastly different from the rest of the world, particularly its southern neighbour that influences it tremendously, and that's a fair assessment IMO. Canada is a great country, but is simply not that culturally distinctive.

Italy is a young 'country' too but it has a long history, obviously. In Canada we have over five hundred years of recorded history now, and thousands of years of aboriginal culture prior to that. You are being dismissive if you see your new home as merely a passport, with nothing to define itself beyond the sign posts of American mass cultural exports which as somebody else rightfully pointed out wield just as much cultural influence in France or Japan or around the world as they do in Canada (and perhaps more so, in some respects).

 

[LordWanker]

I never said Canadian culture is exactly the same as American culture, in fact, how American culture is even relevant in this at all? Your emphasis on the subtle yet significant difference seems to strengthen the common belief that Canadian culture is built on the basis of being not American. For example, Koreans never say we have a Korean culture because there is significant different between us and Japan/China.

"Since all orientals look the same?" LOL. I can tell who is Chinese, Korean or Japanese 90% of the time in 2 minutes without them talking a word. That's how culture influence one's most subtle movement and gesture, as well as how they dress and style themselves. They are quite different. On the other hand, can you tell the difference between a Canadian and an American? Hardly anyone can.

I am not dismissive of Canada. I am only telling the truth that as a young country, it has yet to develop a whole set of its own culture and tradition that is vastly different from the rest of the world, particularly its southern neighbour that influences it tremendously, and that's a fair assessment IMO. Canada is a great country, but is simply not that culturally distinctive.

Grasshopper, you claim to be so wise yet have so much, much more to learn......