Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

[TOperson]

Yes, I guess we can put TOperson into the same camp as Rob Ford. You know, it's the mentality that believes we should cut funding Pride so as to 'save' money, that the gays should be proud enough by now and if not then let them pay for it themselves!... and heck, why stop there? Let's cut funding for TIFF and Luminato too. These things are an inconvenience to most real Torontonians and the money could be way better spent, right??

... and for that matter why just stop at annual events? Where's the real tangible and quantifiable payback to the arts or to education? ... and sports?? Heck no! Cut it all!!

Then again, there's always Riverdale Rat's visionary perspective that dismisses the importance of ancillary benefits altogether as 'boring'?



It must be nice to be Riverdale Rat! I mean, everything is booming and we don't have to worry about economic benefits at all... and especially if it means being bored by an unnecessary international sporting event!

... and can somebody please ban TOperson from mentioning anything about Athens ever again? Do we really need to point out that Toronto is simply not Athens, in any way?? I can sympathize that some truly do not want the Olympics but harping on about Athens is over-reaching, pure and simple.

When did I say cut spending to all the other events? Or ANY other events? The Olympics are not just an event, they are THE mega-event. Nothing else comes close in terms of costs. It's more than the City's entire annual budget - on a few weeks of elite sports. It's a question of proportionality. The City is looking at killing The Hardship Fund (less than $1million so poor people can get some medical expenses covered), but somehow it'll find hundreds of millions of dollars for the games? Does that make sense?

As for Athens, I don't think I've mentioned it. Maybe once? Others have mentioned it. Mostly I've been banging on about London. But why shouldn't we talk about past host cities? Their experiences have a lot to teach us about what hosting the Olympics involves.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

AG are you kidding? Rink Rat doom and gloom? Seriously, if anything he's TOO positive about Toronto! That's not RRR's personality at all!

 

[67Cup]

As a Vancouver resident, I can tell you that there was vocal opposition, making pretty much the exact arguments advanced here. Their voices faded as the games approached and have remained mostly silent since. I do not know the final accounting and it is true there were some boondoggles, especially associated with the Olympic Village. These partly had to do with attempts to make the village area include social housing, in an attempt to appease critics.

But overall, I am confident that the very large majority of residents retain glowing memories of the two weeks. It was just plain great fun. I had tickets to 11 events and will recall them fondly for the rest of my days. I live within in walking distance of one of the venues and the security did impinge on my routine. Bit it wasvdefinitely worth it.

 

[Tewder]

When did I say cut spending to all the other events? Or ANY other events?

It's the same issue. As I said before it's like Ford cutting spending to Pride. Pride costs Toronto money - and money that could theoretically save the Hardship fund - but the expenditure is a pittance in comparison to the ancillary benefits of Pride. Benefits that will do far more widespread good to far more people than any hardship fund ever could.

The Olympics are not just an event, they are THE mega-event. Nothing else comes close in terms of costs. It's more than the City's entire annual budget - on a few weeks of elite sports.

... which is why the financial commitments of all levels of government are required. The olympics are high-profile enough to secure this. This allows the city to capitalize on government funding and invest in infrastructure (including transit) to a degree that would otherwize be impossible, or highly highly unlikely at the very least.

It's a question of proportionality.

... as are the ancillary benefits of thes 'granddady' events.

The City is looking at killing The Hardship Fund (less than $1million so poor people can get some medical expenses covered), but somehow it'll find hundreds of millions of dollars for the games? Does that make sense?

I agree that we shouldn't be cutting programs but I don't agree that this has anything whatsoever to do with the olympics. Opting out of the benefits of the added government funding the olympics would secure - along with all the spin-off/ancillary benefits to the economy and region - does not mean that the Hardship Fund would be saved, or that it wouldn't be jeopardized in any way. It doesn't work that way.

 

[TOperson]

It's the same issue. As I said before it's like Ford cutting spending to Pride. Pride costs Toronto money - and money that could theoretically save the Hardship fund - but the expenditure is a pittance in comparison to the ancillary benefits of Pride. Benefits that will do far more widespread good to far more people than any hardship fund ever could.




... which is why the financial commitments of all levels of government are required. The olympics are high-profile enough to secure this. This allows the city to capitalize on government funding and invest in infrastructure (including transit) to a degree that would otherwize be impossible, or highly highly unlikely at the very least.




... as are the ancillary benefits of thes 'granddady' events.




I agree that we shouldn't be cutting programs but I don't agree that this has anything whatsoever to do with the olympics. Opting out of the benefits of the added government funding the olympics would secure - along with all the spin-off/ancillary benefits to the economy and region - does not mean that the Hardship Fund would be saved, or that it wouldn't be jeopardized in any way. It doesn't work that way.

Really? You're doing that thing of arguing against comments and points I never made?

For example, I never said that not hosting the Olympics would save The Hardship Fund. My point there is that one cannot argue that there is no money for things like The Hardship Fund and then turn around and suddenly find masses of money for the games. This is the sort of hypocrisy that should be called out.

I notice you didn't acknowledge your mistake about my mentioning Athens. Plus you jumped to "TOperson is against the Olympics, therefore TOperson is against all public funding of events" pretty quick.

I get the impression you aren't reading my posts very carefully and in fact are just reacting in a knee-jerk way to any criticism of the game. Which is just the level of reading-comprehension and analysis that mega-event propaganda relies on. Or do you really believe that a secretive organization, run by known Fascists, not answerable to any government anywhere, plus all its corporate partners, would only ever tell you the truth about the Olympics?

 

[TOperson]

"Their voices faded as the games approached and have remained mostly silent since."

That's because it was already too late, not because they had a change of heart.

 

[67Cup]

"Their voices faded as the games approached and have remained mostly silent since."

That's because it was already too late, not because they had a change of heart.

No, it was because most people had a great time. Sorry to disappoint you there.

 

[TOperson]

Like the thousands that protested right before the games? And on multiple other occasions? And the anti-Olympic flyers, they were put up by goblins?

http://nogameschicago.com/vancouver

 

[Tewder]

Or do you really believe that a secretive organization, run by known Fascists, not answerable to any government anywhere, plus all its corporate partners, would only ever tell you the truth about the Olympics?

Look, I can actually respect your perspective more in opposing the Olympics on the basis of ethics. Fair enough. I just won't buy the argument that the Olympics would cost Toronto its social programs (programs that are threatened already, by the way, without the help of the Olympics).

Yes, the Olympics are probably corrupt but then find me an organization that isn't and I'd be more shocked. In the end though it can mean great things for the city, the region and the country on many different levels, economic and otherwise, and this is a baby I wouldn't toss out with the bath water!

 

[FNTS]

"Like the thousands that protested right before the games? And on multiple other occasions? And the anti-Olympic flyers, they were put up by goblins?"

Or like the thousands of people protesting RIGHT NOW in London... oh, wait

Or these angry mobs here:

I'm sure for every protester (and I'll be one if things go wrong here in 2024) there are more people who support the games, but you know what they say, haters gonna hate. You must have heard that phrase once or twice.

 

[TOperson]

Look, I can actually respect your perspective more in opposing the Olympics on the basis of ethics. Fair enough. I just won't buy the argument that the Olympics would cost Toronto its social programs (programs that are threatened already, by the way, without the help of the Olympics).

Yes, the Olympics are probably corrupt but then find me an organization that isn't and I'd be more shocked. In the end though it can mean great things for the city, the region and the country on many different levels, economic and otherwise, and this is a baby I wouldn't toss out with the bath water!

I lived in New South Wales during the Sydney Olympics. Funds absolutely were siphoned from education, health, housing, etc budgets. Same thing happened in Vancouver and London. It's standard. If our social programs are threatened now, it would only get worse before, during and after (debt) the games. Think what Montreal could have done if it hadn't had to repay that debt.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that just because other organizations are corrupt, that's no reason not to welcome the Olympics. You WANT to give money to a corrupt organization when you have the option to totally avoid it? You really believe that a corrupt organization will provide the "great things" you expect from the games?

Something I find curious about this discussion (I don't mean you specifically) is the dogged unwillingness to look at the evidence from past host cities. I mean, beyond the mainstream superficial accounts. Like actually reading the many books and studies that have analyzed the impact of the Games in some depth. People really don't want to do that. They'll read reviews before committing 2 hours to a movie, but won't spend a few hours doing research before allowing their government to commit them to paying through the nose for decades for one big event.

Why such reluctance? What is that about?

 

[TOperson]

"Like the thousands that protested right before the games? And on multiple other occasions? And the anti-Olympic flyers, they were put up by goblins?"

Or like the thousands of people protesting RIGHT NOW in London... oh, wait

Or these angry mobs here:

I'm sure for every protester (and I'll be one if things go wrong here in 2024) there are more people who support the games, but you know what they say, haters gonna hate. You must have heard that phrase once or twice.

For one thing, those aren't all Britons. I never said the Olympics had zero dupes, er, fans.

For another, that top photo - how do you even know it's from an Olympic event? Maybe it's from the Jubilee. Or some other event altogether. Maybe it's even a protest!

Did you look for any protest photos?

 

[67Cup]

Like the thousands that protested right before the games? And on multiple other occasions? And the anti-Olympic flyers, they were put up by goblins?

http://nogameschicago.com/vancouver

Google Vancouver olypics costs or variants and look at the dates on the articles. There simply don't seem to be many post games laments compared to the huge number of baleful predictions before the event. Check it out for yourself.

There was a demonstration the day before the games begaN, IIRC (it might have been the first day.). A couple of hundred protesters, many masked, broke some downtown windows. That was about it. There probably were some flyers. Vancouver is poster city west. But I don't recall them. I do recall mixing with thousands of happy, ordinary folks, some from around the world,, but mostly local, at Robson Square, the Olympic Cauldron, and outside five venues.

Follow other tracks in your argument. You'll get a better return on your time and energy.

 

[Hanlansboy]

After watching the impact the Olympics has had on past host cities, no thank you! We are already a world class city, we do not need to spend billions of tax payers money to build structures that will be needed for only a few weeks,leaving the city with an enormous debt that will take decades to pay off. For those of us old enough, remember the 1976 Olympics in Montreal? It cost the city millions it didn't have, resulting in a financial strain that took its tax payers over a decade to pay off. While the event itself brings in millions, it still isn't enough. That, and with today's political climate, I just can't justify putting our city at risk for terrorist attacks. Ask anyone who's lived through hosting the Olympics, the city goes into lockdown, and for what? I think Toronto is already internationally recognized as a world class, beautiful city, so why do we need the Olympics? I know most probably completely disagree with me, but I just thought I'd throw this out there and see if I'm not alone in thinking this, thanks.

 

[TOperson]

Google Vancouver olypics costs or variants and look at the dates on the articles. There simply don't seem to be many post games laments compared to the huge number of baleful predictions before the event. Check it out for yourself.

There was a demonstration the day before the games begaN, IIRC (it might have been the first day.). A couple of hundred protesters, many masked, broke some downtown windows. That was about it. There probably were some flyers. Vancouver is poster city west. But I don't recall them. I do recall mixing with thousands of happy, ordinary folks, some from around the world,, but mostly local, at Robson Square, the Olympic Cauldron, and outside five venues.

Follow other tracks in your argument. You'll get a better return on your time and energy.

Oh brother. So you're basing your arguments on your own personal observations/experience of a MEGA-event? That's scientific.

Re: the lack of media coverage of post-games sentiment doesn't mean Vancouverites are happy about hosting the Olympics. There isn't much point in being vocal once it's all over. What's done is done, and now the bill must be paid. Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, mainstream media tread very carefully around Olympic issues. The games are a huge money-spinner for them, so they will mention only just enough criticism to give an appearance of credibility.

Some critical books have been written about the 2010 games (every Olympics gets a few books written about it) and when they were published, I don't think anyone disagreed with what was in them. There were, as far as I know, no howls of protest about the criticisms, many of which were quite harsh.

Silence post-games could mean many things. It doesn't automatically mean that it all worked out OK.