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Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

I know what Hume is getting at. There's a culture of mistrust and dysfunction at city hall. It comes back to seeing everyone as having some kind of angle rather than believing we can work together to achieve common goals. My question is, why do we see ourselves as incapable of handling large projects successfully? There are plenty of past achievements we can point to that tell us otherwise. To me the greatest examples of civic spirit are the volunteers who come out to support events like the PanAm's, the marathons, the festivals, the soup kitchens, the food banks. Many talented individuals give up their time to improve the city when they could be lifting their own fortunes. They are your true Olympic organizers, yet all we seem to hear about is the corruption and mismanagement. There have been successful Olympic Games in the past. We have great talent in this city. What makes us think we can't handle producing a successful Games?
 
Euphoria said:
I know what Hume is getting at. There's a culture of mistrust and dysfunction at city hall. It comes back to seeing everyone as having some kind of angle rather than believing we can work together to achieve common goals. My question is, why do we see ourselves as incapable of handling large projects successfully? There are plenty of past achievements we can point to that tell us otherwise. To me the greatest examples of civic spirit are the volunteers who come out to support events like the PanAm's, the marathons, the festivals, the soup kitchens, the food banks. Many talented individuals give up their time to improve the city when they could be lifting their own fortunes. They are your true Olympic organizers, yet all we seem to hear about is the corruption and mismanagement. There have been successful Olympic Games in the past. We have great talent in this city. What makes us think we can't handle producing a successful Games?
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That's something of a misrepresentation of the views of many people who are skeptical about hosting the Games. A lot of the opposition has nothing to do with whether a Toronto Games would be considered a poorly organized flop by the rest of the world. Rather, many of the people who want to see some caution and hard costing here are concerned that the price - including spending on over the top sports facilities with massive spectator capacity that would have little use post-Games - wouldn't confer sufficient net benefit on the city. And since you seem to want to be pretty free with our tax dollars, you owe us a precise statement of the exact revenue by source, operating costs and capital spending if you expect me to support what so far has been presented as nothing more than pie in the sky boosterism.
 
Self-actualized adults don't need to pay billionaires to pat them on the head and tell them they're special and world classy.
 
Go back and read previous posts, especially with respect to Paris's current bid, which relies entirely on television rights, private sponsorship, and ticket sales to pay for the Games (approx. $3.8 billion). Also keep in mind that we have a number of venues in place. Basically the big financial hits are security and a stadium at a combined cost of about $2.5 billion. With this we receive major infrastructure, publicity, and other improvements we've wanted for years. This has all been said in prior posts.
 
Spare me the new age psych lesson. Self-actualized or not, if you do nothing, you get nothing. And how do billionaires come into this? More simplistic platitudes about corporate elites...
 
Euphoria said:
Go back and read previous posts, especially with respect to Paris's current bid, which relies entirely on television rights, private sponsorship, and ticket sales to pay for the Games (approx. $3.8 billion). Also keep in mind that we have a number of venues in place. Basically the big financial hits are security and a stadium at a combined cost of about $2.5 billion. With this we receive major infrastructure, publicity, and other improvements we've wanted for years. This has all been said in prior posts.
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Go back and read all the previous posts (and the many links posted) that show that most of the TV and sponsorship money goes to the IOC, that the Pan Am venues are too small and will be too old by 2024, that the stadium will be useless, and that the security costs are indefensible for an event that nobody needs anyway. And the ones where people simply say they don't care about hosting the games, certainly not for what it costs, there are bigger priorities and better ways to spend the money.
 
Euphoria said:
Spare me the new age psych lesson. Self-actualized or not, if you do nothing, you get nothing. And how do billionaires come into this? More simplistic platitudes about corporate elites...
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You're the guy talking about fear and self-concept and distrust. Can't have it both ways.
 
Okay, fair enough TOperson. I was referencing distrust and lack of confidence rather than the much talked about inferiority complex. Big, influential cities without inferiority complexes like London and Paris still try to host major international events. I'm more concerned about our fear and timidity than a notion that we are trying to overcompensate. We need to do more punching above our weight and reaching for the stars.
 
As for costs vs. benefits, I'm not going to repeat myself ad infinitum. The basic math is that private money more than pays for the security and stadium that you loath. It also provides some private funds for city amenities that most of us have wanted for years. It also fast tracks expenditures on needed infrastructure from all three levels of government. I've already told you what those benefits are, and that's without even getting into the inspirational, athletic capacity building, and tourism/international profile considerations.
 
Euphoria said:
As for costs vs. benefits, I'm not going to repeat myself ad infinitum. The basic math is that private money more than pays for the security and stadium that you loath. It also provides some private funds for city amenities that most of us have wanted for years. It also fast tracks expenditures on needed infrastructure from all three levels of government. I've already told you what those benefits are, and that's without even getting into the inspirational, athletic capacity building, and tourism/international profile considerations.
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All of this is patently wrong. There is a ton of research by actual economists, urban planners, etc that debunk it, and many posts in this thread link to that research.

It makes sense that you keep falling back on the emotional arguments because the economic ones do not hold up to scrutiny.
 
Where do you get the idea that the IOC gets billions out of host cities? The IOC gets some funds to support visits from delegates who are rating the bids and for administrative costs. Any cost overruns in cities have related to construction costs. Okay, you don't want an Olympics. You think TO can't put together a bid that's in the city's interests. Other cities have succeeded in that department. Maybe Toronto can't. Maybe it would be one of the train wrecks. Is that the line you wish people here to take? You won't win an argument that says the Olympic Games are always bad deals for cities, because in some cities they've been good deals. The success of the Games is purely a function of the bid and the brains behind it. Maybe we don't have the capacity in TO. I don't believe that's true, but sure, it's a valid argument. A failed Olympics would find good company among other failed Games. So what? Lay down and die a slow death. Don't learn to sail because your boat might sink. I don't see the value in taking that position.
 
Euphoria said:
Where do you get the idea that the IOC gets billions out of host cities? The IOC gets some funds to support visits from delegates who are rating the bids and for administrative costs. Any cost overruns in cities have related to construction costs. Okay, you don't want an Olympics. You think TO can't put together a bid that's in the city's interests. Other cities have succeeded in that department. Maybe Toronto can't. Maybe it would be one of the train wrecks. Is that the line you wish people here to take? You won't win an argument that says the Olympic Games are always bad deals for cities, because in some cities they've been good deals. The success of the Games is purely a function of the bid and the brains behind it. Maybe we don't have the capacity in TO. I don't believe that's true, but sure, it's a valid argument. A failed Olympics would find good company among other failed Games. So what? Lay down and die a slow death. Don't learn to sail because your boat might sink. I don't see the value in taking that position.
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I can't figure out if you are a sock puppet or just shockingly uninformed. This stuff isn't even hidden - it's all published on the Olympics website.
 
Have you read any of the budget breakdowns? IOC walks away with about 10% of sponsorship fees. You can read, so I'll leave you to it.
 
Euphoria said:
Have you read any of the budget breakdowns? IOC walks away with about 10% of sponsorship fees. You can read, so I'll leave you to it.
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They take half the global sponsorship fees and half the broadcast fees. That gets split began the ioc and the nocs. The ioc gets 7.5% of all ticket sales, 3% of commemorative coins, up to 15% of commemorative stamps and about 5% of all other games revenue. If the operating budget ends in a surplus the ioc and noc take 40% and the rest goes to sports. If there is a loss the host picks up the tab. The IOC literally makes billions of dollars off the host city every four years.
 
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