Toronto 2 Queen West | 34.44m | 7s | Cadillac Fairview | Zeidler

The Simons on Rue Ste-Catharine is much larger than 12,000 sq. ft. but is small and cramped compared to the new Square One store (110,000 sq. ft.), or Place Ste-Foy, both of which I've been to. The original store in Old Quebec is about that size. It's tiny.
 
ShonTron said:
The Simons on Rue Ste-Catharine is much larger than 12,000 sq. ft. but is small and cramped compared to the new Square One store (110,000 sq. ft.), or Place Ste-Foy, both of which I've been to. The original store in Old Quebec is about that size. It's tiny.
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I don't find the Ste. Catherine store to be small or cramped, even in comparison to suburban floor plates. Eye of the beholder, I suppose.

Waterloo_Guy said:
No, they recently said that they have no interest in putting a Simons downtown. It was in an article a few months ago. I didn't bookmark it.
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That's interesting. They have been saying the exact opposite until quite recently. Finding space downtown, and/or the resources required for the expansion everywhere else in Canada, could be the reason - I am a bit surprised they would be as definitive as "no interest", though, even if they were no longer actively looking. But maybe that's why I don't own/run Simons. Do you remember where you saw that?
 
Skeezix said:
That's interesting. They have been saying the exact opposite until quite recently. Finding space downtown, and/or the resources required for the expansion everywhere else in Canada, could be the reason - I am a bit surprised they would be as definitive as "no interest", though, even if they were no longer actively looking. But maybe that's why I don't own/run Simons. Do you remember where you saw that?
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I'm going to see if I can find it. I really need to start bookmarking things.

*Edit. I was wrong. A quick look and I found that Simons did try to move downtown and was interested in the Eaton Centre. When it didn't pan out, they said in the Star that they have no plans for downtown. I suspect that this is the article that I was poorly remembering.

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...g-in-canada-defying-retail-industry-woes.html
 
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Skeezix said:
Simons is building a 92,000 square foot store in downtown Calgary (actually, I think it will be opening soon), over four levels in an old historic building. The Rideau Centre store is 104,000 square feet over two levels, a portion of which is in next to a rebuilt historic store facade (Ogilvy's).

If the footprint here is 12,000 square feet, then a four-storey store would only yield 48,000 square feet. Also, quite notably, the store would not have any connection to the main mall (quite unlike the Calgary and Ottawa stores).

Even if a potential Simons spread into the rooftop addition, it would still be significantly smaller than the Calgary store, and quite inefficiently spread over 6 or so small storeys. Lots of escalators. And still likely no interior connection to the main mall.

ETA: Just to be more accurate.
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To be fair, I'm guessing the Shoppers location at the south end bottom floor would go with the larger Y&D location opening, leaving additional (potentially) adjoined floorspace to work into the space above, no? In my head those floor spaces overlap, but I could be wrong.
 
zang said:
To be fair, I'm guessing the Shoppers location at the south end bottom floor would go with the larger Y&D location opening, leaving additional (potentially) adjoined floorspace to work into the space above, no? In my head those floor spaces overlap, but I could be wrong.
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At one point, Sports Experts (or was it Sport Chek by that point?) on the ground floor of the inside mall had a connection to Atmosphere in the building on the corner. But it was a bit awkward. I don't know if the awkwardness was attributable to the fact that they cheapened out on the connection, or because there are practical reasons why that connection is difficult. But you are correct, there is a possibility of some sort of link.

But that SDM is only just over 13,000 square feet. Added to the floors upstairs, that's still only about 85,000 square feet in total, spread over 7 floors, with the only mall connection at the bottom (assuming they can make that connection work - the newly opened Calgary store, in contrast, has mall connections on the ground, second and third floors). Still quite on the small side for Simons, and not very efficient space (lots of escalators). Don't get me wrong - I would love a Simons there, but it would be tricky to make work.

Also, I doubt SDM would close its outlet in the PATH, just off the subway entrance, in the Eaton Centre, for the Yonge Dundas Square location. I assume they would continue to operate both.
 
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Skeezix said:
Also, I doubt SDM would close its outlet in the PATH, just off the subway entrance, in the Eaton Centre, for the Yonge Dundas Square location. I assume they would continue to operate both.
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Just seems a bit overkill for the area. My assumption was that the Y&D location was meant to replace both the EC and 10 Dundas locations. At 22,000 feet, it seems far bigger than both combined.

That said though, Shoppers has maintained three (Hudson Bay Centre, 718 Yonge and 817 Yonge) within spitting distance of each other for years, so who knows..
 
I just don't think the YD location would be catering to the same customers as the one in the basement of the Eaton Centre. The latter is mostly catching people in the PATH, on the lower level of the mall, people entering and exiting the Queen subway. A store on the square isn't particularly convenient to any of these people. There is an even closer SDM location, in the Bay Adelaide Centre, catering to the same captive PATH market, and they both seem to be doing well.

I agree with you that it is overkill. But that seems to be SDM's successful strategy.

ETA: Having said all that, I have no idea what SDM's lease with Cadillac Fairview says, and whether or not it provides CF with some rights to move SDM if it wants to accommodate something else in that location.
 
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raptor said:
demolition, and re-build. Interesting!
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Yup - with a lot of new material (from the report - p. 6)

Proposed Demolition and Conservation Strategy
The applicant has submitted a Conservation Plan outlining the property’s existing condition and a description of the proposed reconstruction and restoration strategy. The proposed strategy for both the north and south buildings includes the demolition of all streetwall masonry and the retention of the existing back-up structural masonry wall for the entirety of the north building and to the fourth storey on the south building due to identified significant structural issues. The streetwall for the north building will be reconstructed with the restoration of significant features including the metal storefront and stone signage band and cornice. The south building streetwall will also be reconstructed and restored to its 1895 condition with features including stone arched entry and window bay, metal storefront, leaded transom window and stone sign band and cornice. A new interior structure and floor plates will connect into the existing backup masonry wall in line with existing floor heights.

The Conservation Plan submitted with this application identifies approximately half of the existing terra cotta, much of the existing stone, and nine window units on the southwest corner will be restored and reinstated on the facades. However, due to its deteriorated condition, the existing facing brick will be replaced with a new custom brick to be reviewed by staff prior to installation. Other materials including metal elements such as the cornice and existing flashing will also be replaced in kind with new materials. The storefront, which is not original, will be restored to the 1895 design with metal materials and will include original details such as the historic recessed entry.

AoD
 
The conclusion is actually a very nicely written defense of assessing heritage items on a unique, case-by-case basis:

While staff are extremely reluctant to recommend in support of the demolition of any heritage property, after careful review of the existing property and of the condition assessments provided by the project heritage consultants, it is clear to staff that this is the logical way to move forward. The reconstruction of the existing streetwalls of the north and south buildings will ensure the long-term appreciation of this property and restore a heritage resource that has suffered from unsympathetic alterations and neglect for many years.

Staff have worked extensively with the applicant to review both the conservation strategy for the existing building and the details of the rooftop addition. Staff are supportive of the applicant's efforts to reconstruct this property in accordance with its landmark status on the northwest corner of Queen and Yonge Streets.
 
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