1233 Queen East | ?m | 8s

[Agram]

Yesterday I made some calls and got the news on the TR, apparently it has always been the plan that the train goes back to Thunder Bay and be put back on the assembly line. This is a brand new train design so along the way things change, you perfect something by making it over and over. Its just like a first year production car, the first year always sucks but by the time they reach year 3-4 the car is perfect. So just because this train is slated to go back don't be sad or disappointed its just how things are done. I believe the reason why they braught the train down to Kingston is because up in Thunder Bay they do not have a real track and wanted to assemble the train and see how it works and iron out any kinks. As of now there is one unit which is built and are half way on the 2nd unit. But my prediction for the public to ride still stands it will be late '10 or early '11, thats just the way things are done. It takes a while to test these trains, every scenerio has to be taken in place. There might be a slight problem down the road as the original supplier for the doors has gone out of business, not sure if they are being taken over or if Bombardier is making plans with another manufacturer.

 

[hkric88]

If it was always part of the plan, why have the official statements been so contrary?

 

[smallspy]

Yesterday I made some calls and got the news on the TR, apparently it has always been the plan that the train goes back to Thunder Bay and be put back on the assembly line. This is a brand new train design so along the way things change, you perfect something by making it over and over. Its just like a first year production car, the first year always sucks but by the time they reach year 3-4 the car is perfect. So just because this train is slated to go back don't be sad or disappointed its just how things are done. I believe the reason why they braught the train down to Kingston is because up in Thunder Bay they do not have a real track and wanted to assemble the train and see how it works and iron out any kinks. As of now there is one unit which is built and are half way on the 2nd unit. But my prediction for the public to ride still stands it will be late '10 or early '11, thats just the way things are done. It takes a while to test these trains, every scenerio has to be taken in place. There might be a slight problem down the road as the original supplier for the doors has gone out of business, not sure if they are being taken over or if Bombardier is making plans with another manufacturer.

While I have no doubt that the first trainset went back to Thunder Bay - so did the first T1 set that was shipped to Toronto for testing - I think that it will be in revenue service well ahead of your prediction. Here's why....

They're not reinventing the wheel with the TR's - a lot of the "new" technology on it was proved in Toronto on the T1 cars. While yes, there are some new twists on it (such as the fixed-length trainset, fewer cabs, etc.), mechanically they are not that far removed from the T1's which we know run without problems.

We shouldn't see a year-long testing and acceptance regimen like we saw with the T1's...I suspect that the first trainset will be in service 2 to 3 months after it lands on the property.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[hkric88]

Let's also keep in mind that Bombardier uses basic, standardized components, which may be modified where needed, to build their trainsets. Things like the traction components especially (MITRAC). This stuff is not only in use around the world, it is well tested and thoroughly engineered, not quite 'first production run'. Also, articulated trains made by Bombardier exist in many cities outside North America, and also are well proven. Just because they are assembled in Thunder Bay does not mean Bombardier's global expertise and technology would not be implemented.

 

[Agram]

Wilson complex will not be rady for at least another 6 months, we can not accept trains until our facilities are ready. If any work needs to be done on the roof how are we going to do it? Also none of the mechanics have been trained yet never mind the safety or standard inspection teams!

T1's which we know run without problems.

Dont go there, these trains are not with out flaws.........like torque arms cracking .....I cant tell you the amount of times we had to do a fleet check or trip switches falling off.

 

[andomano]

^^ good to see you're actually contributing to the discussion hk.

There might be a slight problem down the road as the original supplier for the doors has gone out of business, not sure if they are being taken over or if Bombardier is making plans with another manufacturer.

Hmmm... another victim of the global R word?

I believe the reason why they braught the train down to Kingston is because up in Thunder Bay they do not have a real track and wanted to assemble the train and see how it works and iron out any kinks.

There is a proper test track in Thunder Bay, and it's around 800 metres long (Google Earth) which is roughly equivalent to the distance between Davisville and Eglinton Stations. It is kind of odd to look at the track at first glance because it appears to have a continuous frog-leg, but it's built to accommodate both standard and TTC gauges.
Google Earth puts the Millhaven facility at about a 2km loop.


vv maybe I was wrong about hk contributing...

 

[hkric88]

The building at Wilson is pretty much complete, 6 months?? Are you CRAZY? Or are you just wrong?

Maybe both.

 

[Agram]

Well hk I was just inside the complex today and to me it looks not done! What can I say, no power, no 600 Volt lines yet, no running rail....well its there but not welded to support beams........no offices, no washrooms, no paint, no flooring .......nooooo nothing.........since you know everything hk please tell me whan you were in there last time and enlighten me but it seems you know more then I do sitting in your little bedroom. Now go away and go play with your Xbox and let the grown ups talk.

 

[hkric88]

Youre response was facetious and immature.

It doesn't take a huge amount of intelligence to doubt that a building with windows, a complete exterior and rails leading up to it, that has lighting and obviously structures on the interior, will take another 6 months to complete.

 

[Agram]

The rails are from the outside and they stop at the door! Yes there are lights inside I never said that there weren't any. Im saying its not done inside yet, they havent even connected the hoist yets yet, there is still a lot of work left to do. My 6 months is not concrete for God's sake relax, it is not done yet......if I ever go there on the off shifts and if the doors are left unlocked I will take some pictures ok....as of now we are not even allowed to go in there but I sneaked in lol

 

[hkric88]

as of now we are not even allowed to go in there but I sneaked in lol

Your wording here is suspicious; the more you say the harder it becomes to entertain a concept of your validity.

I would love the pictures, you know, pictures are worth 1,000 words.

 

[smallspy]

Let's also keep in mind that Bombardier uses basic, standardized components, which may be modified where needed, to build their trainsets. Things like the traction components especially (MITRAC). This stuff is not only in use around the world, it is well tested and thoroughly engineered, not quite 'first production run'. Also, articulated trains made by Bombardier exist in many cities outside North America, and also are well proven. Just because they are assembled in Thunder Bay does not mean Bombardier's global expertise and technology would not be implemented.

The discrete components are usually not the issue. The interface between the many discrete components can be and frequently is. The traction components are just one part of the equation.

The Rocket's are not articulated. They are 6 separate, drawbarred cars with open gangways.

No one is calling into question Bombardier's expertise and know-how. But they also build their products to spec (sometimes using products that aren't their own), and are expected to have all of the potential issues ironed out before delivery. This kind of testing is normal.

Dont go there, these trains are not with out flaws.........like torque arms cracking .....I cant tell you the amount of times we had to do a fleet check or trip switches falling off.

Yeah, I really didn't phrase that right. I meant that they know that they work with the system as it is now, whereas they weren't sure when they were first designed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[andomano]

I think it sounds like what Agram's saying is that the TTC had the superstructure built quickly before snow starts the fall.

Since it's not exactly safe to work indoors in the dark, illumination devices tend to be installed at workplaces.

 

[Agram]

The building was not built by us, it was done by an outside contractor. We do not have the personel nor the experience to do such a structure. Once the structure is completed the inside stuff is easily completed, the only part our workers will do is put up the rail and may be the 600 Volts.

This part is done by the Plant Department and I'm not really too familiar with their type of work or how long it takes. But since that department is stretched so thin it takes them a long time to finish their projects. I recall 4 years ago they had to shim 2 inside tracks, these tracks were so off that once the trains lost air and the brakes were isolated when worked on they would roll back about 4-6 feet....totaly unsafe. It took them 4 months, they had to cut the rail, re shim it and put new rail back on. It didn't help that they were also working on 3 other projects including some work on rail at the streetcar locations and St. Clair Ave.

 

[hkric88]

This part is done by the Plant Department

Wouldn't this work be done by the 'Track and Structure' Department? Not the 'Plant Maintenance' Department?

Just curious..