smallspy
Senior Member
You mean like they did with the subway cars? Or like they did with the streetcars?
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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You mean like they did with the subway cars? Or like they did with the streetcars?
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Palma
Senior Member
Why can't TTC forget about Bombardier and go with another company that is reliable?
dowlingm
Senior Member
Like who? There aren't many companies that don't struggle with one or more of their product lines.
drum118
Superstar
Until the Province stop mandating Thunder Bay and start doing tenders on rolling stock like they are on construction projects, TTC hands are tie since the City of Toronto doesn't want to be on the hook cover TTC cost not cover by the province in the first place.
Based on the current mess as well the various changes to trade agreement, we may see the province start looking else where.
Never have or will support sole source supplier using taxpayers money or job protection.
At some point this year and if Bombardier fails to live up to the current agreement, you may see the contract cancel or other steps taken to obtain cars from someone else. Depending on what happens to Bombardier as a whole, TTC maybe force to make a change.
I said in 2005 you were asking for trouble putting all your eggs in one basket and here we are.
D
Duck
Guest
Southwest puts all their eggs in one basket by buying 737's and seem to do just fine. Maintenance is far simpler when the fleet is all the same.
There are good reasons to stick with the Devil you know.
There are good reasons to stick with the Devil you know.
Amare
Senior Member
No offense, but the airline business is completely different then the transit business. There are many airlines that go with a single manufacturer for their entire fleet and that's for various reasons (pilot training, maintenance savings, mass discounts from the manufacturer, fleet commonality savings, etc..).
With streetcars and LRT's, its not uncommon to see transit authorities operate multiple vehicle types.
CodeMonkey
Active Member
Simply put, its political. Bombardier owns the Hawker Siddeley/UTDC factories and test sites in Ontario, and the province can spin helping the TTC fund transit projects like new LRT's and Streetcars if its looks like it will benefit people in other parts of Ontario that isn't the GTA.
D
Duck
Guest
No offence taken - I don't agree, though. I think it's very comparable. Many airlines choose to have their fleet built up with different craft from different manufacturers - and others (like Southwest) prefer the much simpler logistics afforded by sticking to a single model. And it's a significant part of why Southwest is so successful. So too do many cities. Some choose to have a massive messy mish-mash fleet of stuff that is all random and looks like garbage, and others (like Toronto) have a great looking and relatively uniform set of trains.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Exactly just look at Boston every line is a different vehicle. The green line is an LRT type vehicle, Orange is one type of subway, the red line is another type., and the blue line is some sort of odd hybrid vehicle that has both shoes for third rail and photographs for overhead wires. Personally I think it makes sense for the TTC to have one manufacturer build it's fleet. Go Transit does it as well and don'st have a problem.
The only problem I see with Bombardier and the Flex is thath they outsourced parts to a plant they shouldn't have and are stuck with it.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
What is wrong with the subway fleet? It doesn't seem unreliable. What is this big hate with Bombardier? They outsource to Mexico to be price competitive and have some teething problems and all of a sudden all the great things they have produced over the years are quickly forgotten. Like Siemens, Alstom, Skoda, and CAF have never had a project that has been late or ovebudget or had teething problems.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
You use the word, "some", rather liberally.
drum118
Superstar
That teething problem is over 10 years old and goes back to the Minneapolis Cars order.
The problems with the new TR are the doors that don't work like any of the T1s or any of the Hs up to 6 seconds delay, causing a lost of a train per hour; cars are supposed to overweight that slows their climbing speed down; there been brake problems and etc. I know about the doors problems first hand since day one and time them. I heard the brake issues and going on other info I have heard.
Other supplier have had their issues, but not on an order like TTC or like it. Strange subway cars have the least problems by all.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I didn't realize there was a problem with the Minneapolis cars. I thought they used that as their shining example with people flying to Minneapolis to see these cars that were nothing like what was going to be ordered.
The door thing is some kind of safety locking isn't it? I have found the speed of door opening seems to be dependent on the operator. Some operators are very quick, and some seem make you wait a while.
CodeMonkey
Active Member
The problems are starting to snowball for Bombardier; from the TTC to London Transit delays and losing the bid for new rail cars for Chicago Transit Authority. They're having more than just "teething" problems.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Toronto Rocket subway trains are a "transitional" vehicle. It is the vehicle that takes the TTC from human driver to computer driver.
What sort of subway train could come after all the subway trains on the TTC change over to ATO, or computer drivers?
A good example would be the removal of the driver's cab entirely. Controls would still be there, in case of an emergency, but instead of a cab, we could get a real "rail fan" window in front and back of the trains.
What sort of subway train could come after all the subway trains on the TTC change over to ATO, or computer drivers?
A good example would be the removal of the driver's cab entirely. Controls would still be there, in case of an emergency, but instead of a cab, we could get a real "rail fan" window in front and back of the trains.