Toronto Ïce Condominiums at York Centre | 234.07m | 67s | Lanterra | a—A

[Richard White]

Was this short term rental illegal?
No. The unit in question is a registered short term rental within the building, which means that the Owner has provided proof of principal residence and has been notified of the following upon registration

Herein lies the problem.

People are claiming it is their primary residence but that means nothing unless the City of Toronto provides proper licensing and enforcement other than the honor system.

I was a Condo Manager and this reeks of ass saving.

I read the letter as the management office abdicating all responsibility for what happened and providing feel good responses that don't do much.

I had a saying when I was doing Condo Security. If a guy comes in with a gun he can have the keys while I bolt from the building.

Condo Security doesn't pay more than minimum so you can increase coverage all you want but for that money nobody will risk their lives.

If I was an owner at Ice I would attempt to requisition a meeting under section 46 of the condo act and remove the board of directors because of these incidents.

 

[Dustin William]

Herein lies the problem.

People are claiming it is their primary residence but that means nothing unless the City of Toronto provides proper licensing and enforcement other than the honor system.

I was a Condo Manager and this reeks of ass saving.

I read the letter as the management office abdicating all responsibility for what happened and providing feel good responses that don't do much.

I had a saying when I was doing Condo Security. If a guy comes in with a gun he can have the keys while I bolt from the building.

Condo Security doesn't pay more than minimum so you can increase coverage all you want but for that money nobody will risk their lives.

If I was an owner at Ice I would attempt to requisition a meeting under section 46 of the condo act and remove the board of directors because of these incidents.

Agreed! Nothing is currently being done, thus change needs to happen.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

I was merely describing with accuracy the people that I was dealing with at the time.

If it is equity you seek, I can describe the woman in detail that was running down the hallway?

Sure you were. But it's not the description that's the problem, it the narrative you seem to be implying with it. My advice, is to take a step back from what you posted and consider perhaps its connotations which you may not intentionally trying to push. From outside of the context in which you where writing it, it comes off pretty racially charged. And note, this has really nothing to do with race, but attitude here. Then adjust your description accordingly with that in mind for the future. Saves yourself from having to explain that the back of your neck hasn't been in the sun too much in a derail from the subject at hand, among other things. Just saying.

 

[allengeorge]

It does read like a “can’t do much” response, blaming both the board and the city/Bylaw enforcement.

I mean, that’s probably true: the city doesn’t enforce bylaws, and the board has ignored this problem over the years - but it’s not comforting to hear that. Sounds like the board needs to be overthrown at a minimum. Or, some reporters have to ask some hard questions about who’s on the board and how they benefit from this STR situation. Maybe then the city will act.

 

[Richard White]

It does read like a “can’t do much” response, blaming both the board and the city/Bylaw enforcement.

I mean, that’s probably true: the city doesn’t enforce bylaws, and the board has ignored this problem over the years - but it’s not comforting to hear that. Sounds like the board needs to be overthrown at a minimum. Or, some reporters have to ask some hard questions about who’s on the board and how they benefit from this STR situation. Maybe then the city will act.

All that information is online here: https://cao.microsoftcrmportals.com...me&lgnumber=2510&searchregion=Toronto&total=1

It looks like they have an AGM coming up based on the date since the last one.

 

[allengeorge]

Unfortunately, the more local politics gets, the fewer people are engaged. And this is politics on the most local of levels.

Perhaps long-term renters and live-in owners can band together and propose a full slate of candidates to replace the current 5. I doubt 1 or 2 new candidates will change the tenor of the board.

I wish them luck, and hope that some change happens: it sucks to live in a place where you feel unsafe, can’t relax, and are subject to people who don’t respect shared space.

 

[karledice]

All that information is online here: https://cao.microsoftcrmportals.com...me&lgnumber=2510&searchregion=Toronto&total=1

It looks like they have an AGM coming up based on the date since the last one.

View attachment 276844View attachment 276845

I mean I can understand it from both sides: the owners who have to pay mortgage and fees and bought the units to rent them out.
They are also just trying to make a living. Now with the city bylaw that only allows for Primary Residence rental, that should help.

The issue is with the way Lanterra has sold this building to investors. There are SO MANY units in these 2 towers and they needed to sell them to overseas investors (mostly Chinese) to sell them out.
So Lanterra built a declaration that allows for rental that is difficult to challenge at the AGMs because SO MANY units are owned by investors hence they hold the voting power.
Now you know this just stay away if you need to buy anything from Lanterra, but especially this and Maple Leaf Square. Alot of headache and drama

 

[crumplescotch]

I mean I can understand it from both sides: the owners who have to pay mortgage and fees and bought the units to rent them out.
They are also just trying to make a living. Now with the city bylaw that only allows for Primary Residence rental, that should help.

The issue is with the way Lanterra has sold this building to investors. There are SO MANY units in these 2 towers and they needed to sell them to overseas investors (mostly Chinese) to sell them out.
So Lanterra built a declaration that allows for rental that is difficult to challenge at the AGMs because SO MANY units are owned by investors hence they hold the voting power.
Now you know this just stay away if you need to buy anything from Lanterra, but especially this and Maple Leaf Square. Alot of headache and drama

Where's the information about many units being sold overseas coming from? As far as I'm concerned, sales subjected to Non‑Resident Speculation Tax in the city of Toronto are somewhat negligible (sitting at around 3%) and I've yet to see a single Chinese looking name in the list of board members presented in this thread, meaning even if they do own those units they will have to comply to the city bylaw if the board finally decides to enforce it. That being said, board of directors is inadmissible to the non-residents of Canada, so they must be somehow manipulating other people to push their agenda which is too deep of a conspiracy for my taste to be completely honest.

 

[Richard White]

Where's the information about many units being sold overseas coming from? As far as I'm concerned, sales subjected to Non‑Resident Speculation Tax in the city of Toronto are somewhat negligible (sitting at around 3%) and I've yet to see a single Chinese looking name in the list of boar members presented in this thread, meaning even if they do own those units they will have to comply to the city bylaw if the board finally decides to enforce it. That being said, board of directors is inadmissible to the non-residents of Canada, so they must be somehow manipulating other people to push their agenda which is too deep of a conspiracy for my taste to be completely honest.

When I worked at the Burano alongside Lanterra during the initial occupancy stage they were starting to construct Ice.

The Burano had more foreign investors than it did domestic owners. It wasn't uncommon for real estate agents to pick up 7 or 8 key packets at the Burano on behalf of one owner from Asia.

When Ice was being built Lanterra had a big issue with foreign investors buying up buildings. I saw it first hand.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Where's the information about many units being sold overseas coming from? As far as I'm concerned, sales subjected to Non‑Resident Speculation Tax in the city of Toronto are somewhat negligible (sitting at around 3%) and I've yet to see a single Chinese looking name in the list of board members presented in this thread, meaning even if they do own those units they will have to comply to the city bylaw if the board finally decides to enforce it. That being said, board of directors is inadmissible to the non-residents of Canada, so they must be somehow manipulating other people to push their agenda which is too deep of a conspiracy for my taste to be completely honest.

This building is begging for an investigation along the lines of Five.

AoD

 

[crumplescotch]

When I worked at the Burano alongside Lanterra during the initial occupancy stage they were starting to construct Ice.

The Burano had more foreign investors than it did domestic owners. It wasn't uncommon for real estate agents to pick up 7 or 8 key packets at the Burano on behalf of one owner from Asia.

When Ice was being built Lanterra had a big issue with foreign investors buying up buildings. I saw it first hand.

So you're saying this building in particular is the 3%? Is the list of buyers public? How can we be so sure those 7 or 8 key packets went to owners from Asia? How come none of them are on board?

I'm asking because I personally had to deal with the owner of those notorious Booking/AirBnb units in Ice and his assistant, they were typical Torontonians so to speak. I actually had to file a complaint to the city on him because of the treatment some of my relatives got while they were residing there; he owned a number of units like that as it turned out.

I keep hearing these talks, but it seems to me it's always easier to blame an unseen Chinese investor/money launderer than our domestic opportunists; I've met a huge number of real estate agents, who happen to own multiple properties around the city, including properties in AirBnb hotels, they were talking about assets, market, money, commercial property and how to sell it to the highest bidder (huge developer) rather than rent it out to businesses, they were saying most of their buyers were new immigrants trying to make home, you know, they were talking about these types of things. They were not investors from China, not some shady, corrupt CCP officials trying to launder their fortune, they were Torontonians trying to make a buck on a hot market.

You don't really need a foreign investor when the banks are more than ready to give out a business loan for real estate speculation to just about anyone who's credit history isn't a complete garbage.

 

[DSC]

Airbnb needs to be banned from these condos.

Or the condo owners need to follow the City's by-law that requires registering apartments for rent and restricts the number of nights per year they can be rented out. The problem in ICE (and other condo buildings) is that the Condo Corporation's Declaration and Rules do not restrict short-term rentals in any way; if they did the Condo Corporation could probably stop most of the short-term rentals themselves. In short, never buy a condo in a building that has no restrictions on short-term rentals!

 

[Richard White]

So you're saying this building in particular is the 3%? Is the list of buyers public? How can we be so sure those 7 or 8 key packets went to owners from Asia? How come none of them are on board?

I saw the names on the key packages as well as the names of the POA. The names and email addresses for the most part were asian. They primarily ended in qq.com or were numbered companies with asian names.

The names of buyers are not made public as that is confidential information and they change quickly after occupancy. There are very few original owners in any condo more than 5 years old.

I knew one person there who was from Washington DC but bought a condo for investment purposes at the Burano.

You need to understand something about the Toronto condo market in and around 2003-2008. There was a flurry of development applications approved at this time and people were buying multiple units from floor plans given the fact that Toronto was suddenly seeing a spike in demand for condos. At that time foreign investors were buying up properties from the floor plans to resell them for a quick buck.

 

[karledice]

Where's the information about many units being sold overseas coming from? As far as I'm concerned, sales subjected to Non‑Resident Speculation Tax in the city of Toronto are somewhat negligible (sitting at around 3%) and I've yet to see a single Chinese looking name in the list of board members presented in this thread, meaning even if they do own those units they will have to comply to the city bylaw if the board finally decides to enforce it. That being said, board of directors is inadmissible to the non-residents of Canada, so they must be somehow manipulating other people to push their agenda which is too deep of a conspiracy for my taste to be completely honest.

So when you buy a condo, you can ask the seller to produce the building declaration, status, meeting minutes that shows how many % of units are occupied by owners etc. then you take it to your RE lawyer

It is a known fact in the RE community that this is a foreign investment building. If your agent doesn't know this he needs to learn more about the downtown condo market.
My agent told me from day 1 about this building because he's done business here for foreign investors
In order to change the declaration, they need a majority of owners to VOTE in favour of changing it to ban rentals. It is not up to the board to decide, they need to get the owners to vote even if they propose something.
The voting power lies with these owners because there are many of them that use units for rentals so they just vote No to changing the declaration.
You can read these by requesting the AGM minutes from the strata

You can believe whatever you want to believe. It is up to you to make a decision based on information on public forums such as this one
It is not a conspiracy theory like the Illuminatis lol, these are in the AGM minutes for every strata what they want to pass and what didn't get passed

 

[DSC]

So when you buy a condo, you can ask the seller to produce the building declaration, status, meeting minutes that shows how many % of units are occupied by owners etc. then you take it to your RE lawyer

It is a known fact in the RE community that this is a foreign investment building. If your agent doesn't know this he needs to learn more about the downtown condo market.
My agent told me from day 1 about this building because he's done business here for foreign investors
In order to change the declaration, they need a majority of owners to VOTE in favour of changing it to ban rentals. It is not up to the board to decide, they need to get the owners to vote even if they propose something.
The voting power lies with these owners because there are many of them that use units for rentals so they just vote No to changing the declaration.
You can read these by requesting the AGM minutes from the strata

You can believe whatever you want to believe. It is up to you to make a decision based on information on public forums such as this one
It is not a conspiracy theory like the Illuminatis lol, these are in the AGM minutes for every strata what they want to pass and what didn't get passed

Absolutely true! You need to make sure you obtain a Status Certificate - they cost ca $100 - (it gives you lots of info on the condo corporation and your potential unit) and then talk to a reputable condo lawyer. Caveat emptor! BTW. Changing a Declaration needs 80% (or sometimes 90%) of ALL owners voting in favour, it's NOT easy to do. A Corporation can also put rental restriction in Rules but these are passed by the Board and can be overruled by a majority of owners attending a meeting. Restrictions in Rules are less 'robust' than those in Declarations but certainly better than nothing!