Toronto’s Greece-like spending

[BobBob]

My somewhat simplified take:

City's finances are tight. Two options: raise taxes or cut services. The former would impact wealthier people disproportionately. The latter would impact poorer people disproportionately. The Sun works to keep its readership (which is poorer and less educated on average) convinced that cuts are the way to go, to serve the interests of the wealthier people.

 

[RC8]

My somewhat simplified take:

City's finances are tight. Two options: raise taxes or cut services. The former would impact wealthier people disproportionately. The latter would impact poorer people disproportionately. The Sun works to keep its readership (which is poorer and less educated on average) convinced that cuts are the way to go, to serve the interests of the wealthier people.

Beautifully put.

In the mean time, all the rich people in Mississauga and Oakville who live in their McMansions and drive downtown make almost no contribution to the city's transportation systems (including streets, public transit, lighting, etc.). Their own suburbs make money to sustain theirs by selling farmland for development, in the meantime.

 

[taal]

greace like spending ?


Wow ...

Correct me if I"m wrong but Toronto's overall debt situation (and yes the yearly structural deficit) is quite subdued when compared to many other North American cities.
Some that come to mind:
New York
Chicago
Montreal.
...

From what I recall they're all in similar if not worse situations no ?

 

[Torontovibe]

Really?

If true, this is disturbing.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/04/torontos-greece-like-spending

"If true"? lol Really?

So you really think this is an unbiased, fair account of Toronto's finances? And you really think it compares well to Greece? You honestly don't see this for what it really is or are you just being disingenuous? Can you really be that clueless? I think you might be getting your web sites mixed up because if you read UTer comments to this thread, you'll see that we are not as easy to manipulate as Sun readers. I think you under-estimate the knowledge of Toronto most of us have. Hey, this is URBAN TORONTO, of course you're going to find people here who know a thing or 2 about how this city operates. Don't be surprised if people call you up on your political games and spin.

Why even post something so obviously deceptive and manipulative on UT? That article is meant to rally the Ford Nation, clear and simple but you don't see that? Yeah, sure.

I'm pretty sure you're not as clueless as you pretend to be. ("If true" lol) We all know your political leanings and that you're promoting your boy, Ford but come on. Comparing Greece to Toronto, then leaving out the police budget and you want us to give that credibility. I think you should head on back to spinning on The Sun site, where it's readers are much easier to influence. (and I'm sure the IQ is about 20 points lower than members of UT)

"If true" LOL

 

[Thanos]

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/791297--toronto-s-debt-not-sky-high-moody-s-says

Still not the best report and it's slightly old but it paints a better picture and funny enough it barely got any notice from the public.

For those who are too bored too read:
"Moody's affirmed its "high investment-grade rating" of Aa1 for the city's debt, saying Toronto should be able to handle its current level of debt and interest payments.
In fact, Moody's said Toronto is in better shape than most cities."
"Moody's says Toronto's debt is 41 per cent of operating revenue. By comparison, Montreal's debt is 98 per cent of revenue, Wong said in an interview."

I spoke with a colleague who knows more regarding this issue and he laughed his head off.
I think the analysts at the banks and credit agencies who are giving the city good grades know a thing or two.

 

[Thanos]

I like Levy and Ford,they tell it as it is
No they don't. They manipulate the numbers without taking into consideration the whole context. Ford is the butt of all jokes in the financial sector because he doesn't know and is not willing to find out.

the city must cut cost,the city must not let unions dictate the future of the city,being green is great but if budgets cant support it reduce it until later
Cut costs and not let the unions dictate but we're giving the unions more money and we're spending more money on a lesser transit plan.

Ford is not political correct,he needs time to find ways to cut cost while not cutting service
Again, where are you getting this junk from? Costs are not being reduced however services most probably will. The exact opposite of what he stated.

the special interest groups demands is not high on the list for this office
??????????

I didn't vote Ford because i couldn't vote because i didn't live here at the time of the election. However, it's clear this so called mayor does not understand how to run a city. I wish they had a minimum education level for city councilors.

 

[js97]

I didn't vote Ford because i couldn't vote because i didn't live here at the time of the election. However, it's clear this so called mayor does not understand how to run a city. I wish they had a minimum education level for city councilors.

THey should. As many 'left' councillors/MPs would not qualify. Maybe even a basic accounting and financial management diploma/certificate should also be the basics.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I like Levy and Ford,they tell it as it is,the city must cut cost,the city must not let unions dictate the future of the city,being green is great but if budgets cant support it reduce it until later,Ontario housing mess was the fault of Lastman and Miller,they knew it was a money pit but never investigated the way money was dished out and was open to abuse,so was the way city owned property was sitting empty and not maintained properly,it was the previous leaders that never focus on the asset value of them instead they let it rot.Ford selling them at market value will help with the budget.Ford is not political correct,he needs time to find ways to cut cost while not cutting service,the special interest groups demands is not high on the list for this office,they must help the poor and cut this status class that Miller created for himself,you forgot he spent millions renovating his office while shutting down three daycares run by the city due to lack of funds.I will vote for Ford again.

Apparently periods and spaces are needless gravy (but not commas or mindless right-wing clichés). Let's keep in mind that Miller left the city with an operating surplus that Ford immediately killed by recklessly cutting revenues.

If Levy thinks that TTC "gravy" was bad under Miller, I'm sure she'll love experiencing the next few years under Ford. TTC labour costs will go up as a direct result of Ford's bad decisions. Setting a bad precedent with the police, plus giving the TTC essential service status will put the mayor in a much weaker negotiating position. As well, Ford's obsession with putting all mass transit underground and building a subway to nowhere is going to cost more than David Miller ever hoped to spend.

 

[nfitz]

Does anyone even take Sue-Ann Levy (or as I like to call her, "Soo-Damn Crazy") remotely seriously? She is a ranting psycho that makes even the lamest forum troll look intelligent.

Really ... people are starting threads here about a Sue-Ann Levy article?

The women has zero credibility - and long shown a habit of simply making up her columns - which often seem to resemble works of fiction more than reality. It's like reading an Allan Fotheringham column, but without the intelligent humour (or even without intelligence or humour).

Would you trust Moodys ... or Sue-Ann (I'm getting cash payments from Ford) Levy?

 

[taal]

Thanks for that ... that's what I thought ...

But I'm curious. Is it possible these other cities don't have a large structural deficit ... that is, as things are today, the spending Toronto requires for a given year based on current services and the like is greater then the revenue available to the city. For the last 5 budgets or so this get's patched up with reserved funds / federal - provincial contributions / cuts ...

Do other cities have this as well ? I actually don't think so.

 

[grey]

Tsk-tsk, AG. A Sue-Ann Levy article, no less. smh.

 

[Automation Gallery]

"If true"? lol Really?

So you really think this is an unbiased, fair account of Toronto's finances? And you really think it compares well to Greece? You honestly don't see this for what it really is or are you just being disingenuous? Can you really be that clueless? I think you might be getting your web sites mixed up because if you read UTer comments to this thread, you'll see that we are not as easy to manipulate as Sun readers. I think you under-estimate the knowledge of Toronto most of us have. Hey, this is URBAN TORONTO, of course you're going to find people here who know a thing or 2 about how this city operates. Don't be surprised if people call you up on your political games and spin.

Why even post something so obviously deceptive and manipulative on UT? That article is meant to rally the Ford Nation, clear and simple but you don't see that? Yeah, sure.

I'm pretty sure you're not as clueless as you pretend to be. ("If true" lol) We all know your political leanings and that you're promoting your boy, Ford but come on. Comparing Greece to Toronto, then leaving out the police budget and you want us to give that credibility. I think you should head on back to spinning on The Sun site, where it's readers are much easier to influence. (and I'm sure the IQ is about 20 points lower than members of UT)

"If true" LOL

You you you?...why dont you just kiss my ass..

 

[Thanos]

Thanks for that ... that's what I thought ...

But I'm curious. Is it possible these other cities don't have a large structural deficit ... that is, as things are today, the spending Toronto requires for a given year based on current services and the like is greater then the revenue available to the city. For the last 5 budgets or so this get's patched up with reserved funds / federal - provincial contributions / cuts ...

Do other cities have this as well ? I actually don't think so.

The other canadian cities get lots of provincial money, whether for transit or public housing, etc.
If Toronto was in a financial mess then Vacnouver and Montreal are broke, as they are far worse off than Toronto (and by a mile), and Calgary is in the same boat as we are.
Look up DBRS research on Canadian municipalities. We fare very well.

Difference is those cities are still building for their future, whereas Ford wants to all of a sudden press the pause button on Toronto. If he only knew the future ramifications this has.

 

[Torontovibe]

You you you?...why dont you just kiss my ass..

Is that the best argument you can make? Sheesh!

Answer: Because unlike some people, I don't kiss conservative ass.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Is that the best argument you can make? Sheesh!

Answer: Because unlike some people, I don't kiss conservative ass.

Shame..cause your going to have to live by their rules for the next four years.