It was avoidable. Borrowing $50 billion to get us through what the Bank of Canada suggests should be a minor recession in Canada is irresponsible.
And if it proves to be a minor recession, we won't be borrowing 50 billion. Somehow, I suspect this will be a much tougher recession than anyone is willing to admit at this point.
The cuts were promised in 2005/2006. They had nothing to do with this recession. To suggest otherwise is revisionist. Secondly, Canada's economy isn't driven by domestic demand. Stimulating domestic demand leaks out of our economy through imports even more than it does in the US. It would be more responsible to create an environment conducive to foreign investment in Canada. The last kind of tax cut that accomplishes that is a GST cut. The cut was of dubious economic merit!
I am not disputing that the GST cut was a bad one. But even the Star is willing to admit that it has helped bump up the economy as it was entering a downturn....after all the second cut was due this Jan and the government moved it up. That being said, i agree it was hardly the wisest decision.
Overall, the Liberals would have cut taxes, substantially.
They have. And in that time period they earned my vote. But their last platform deviated by proposing to raise net tax revenue. To me that's a tax increase. It may not come out of my pocket. But it's still an increase. Now, I may not mind increases, (I strongly support property tax increases), but don't try to sell them as a solution to rapidly developing economic crises. And don't try to lie about robbing the middle class to direct virtually all the tax cuts to the low end.
No, I have every right to blame the Conservatives. They got us into this mess, and I opposed them every inch of the way, suggesting alternatives. This is their bed, and now they get to lie in it.
Fair enough. That's your view. My view is...you don't earn credit for merely bitching. If the Liberals believe that the GST was devastating to our nation's finances let them have the testicular fortitude to say that the cut should be rescinded.
Bullshit. An election doesn't wipe away stupidity and mismanagement. Nor does it wipe away corruption (Cadman bribery, In-and-out embezzlement, etc.) or incompetence (Income trusts).
It's talk like that, which makes Liberals seem bitter....and increasingly more bitter than the Conservatives seem angry or paranoid.
'They' (the voters), voted overwhelmingly for parties without the initials CPC.
So if you accept this as a fact, than the Liberals should bear some responsibility in proposing constructive solutions. They can't have it both ways on this one.
Oh, and it bears mentioning that Harper issued a bald-faced lie to voters hardly more than a month ago, repeatedly and categorically refusing to ever run a deficit. This projected deficit didn't suddenly arise in the past 30 days, economists have been suggesting for the past few months that we'd see one next year. He didn't stretch the truth. He knowingly and repeatedly lied to Canadians.
Find me a quote where Dion said he would run a deficit. Otherwise, he simply did what the other leaders did. It's not right, but sadly it's par for the course.
There is a a gulf between the positions "Everything is A-OK" and "Don't invest here".
Unfortunately, the PM remains the PM during an election campaign. Saying negative things would well have impacted investor and consumer confidence. I am glad, he did not do that. And to the credit of other parties, I am fairly sure they would have acted the same way.
Keith, you should also remember that this statement was not made by a Liberal, or any partisan. It was made by the head of the Parliamentary Budget Office, a nonpartisan appointee of the Harper government. He is the one telling truth to power. You are calling for collective denial of the situation we find ourselves in.
I am hardly calling for collective denial. I am calling for some collective responsibility here. All our parties have to work together instead of merely continuing their election campaigns.
It wasn't boneheaded. It was a calculated lie.
Dion said that he wouldn't "cause" a deficit. He wouldn't exacerbate an existing one. He had a much more principled position that Harper.
So evasive answers are now considered principled. Duly noted.
He would have been roasted for his poor management, and rightly so.
This is an issue of sound bite politics. When he said the fundamentals were sound, he was right. Heck, we had jobs growth last month. But it's a global economic crisis and we are going to get affected.
As to poor management, I am willing to give him a partial pass because he cut taxes, albeit the wrong one.
How would Canadians vote if they were to cast their ballots at the end of November instead of 6 weeks earlier? Do recall that Harper called an election of questionable legality.
Yes, there's court cases winding through on that right now. Yes the Conservatives seem unpopular in the polls right now. But if it was election time today, the Green Shift would have been a god send to the Conservatives. A platform that would have raised revenues, changed the entire tax framework and directed the cuts to the poor not the struggling middle class. The Libs should be glad they lost as few seats as they did.
Do you now condone politicians issuing baldfaced lies on matters of great significance for political expediency?
No I don't. But I have never supported idiotic fixed terms either. Only in Canada, would folks bitch about practicing democracy. Oh no, we have to have an election! Fixed terms give us two year long campaigns like what we have south of the border. I would never support that here.
If I'm not mistaken, the federal government is around its smallest size in half a century as a proportion of GDP.
Nothing wrong with that. Or should we go back to the lovely 'socially progressive' fiscal policies that we had in the 70s and 80s?
I've explained to you before that reducing our reliance on highly volatile sources of tax revenue such as corporate profits would lead to more predictable revenues.
And I have repeatedly explained to you that I do not support cutting the GST. I also strongly agree that the GST needs to be harmonized with all the provinces (Ontario in particular).
Then why did Harper lie about it? Why were there predictions of deficit issued before the credit crisis came to a head?
There were no predictions of deficit before the credit crisis came to a head. There was a single month of red ink before the government was back in black. Moreover, by the AG's account the government was on the mark in expecting to break even or have a small surplus. Discussion about deficits only started in September.
It is entirely reasonable to consider total government debt, otherwise debt could be hidden in other levels of government.
It was merely a statement to the other poster on how to use the stats. My points stands, we aren't anywhere as bad as the rest of the OECD though.
Consistent policies, eh? I wonder what will happen to the policies that Harper just promised to enact in this past campaign? He's already backed off many of them (the ones that cost $$$), and that was only in the Speech from the Throne!
Read the other poster's quote. I was responding to that in reference to consistent policy.
As for the Conservative campaign promises....what has he backed of on? I have seen no budget yet that's shed pledges that he made. Campaign promises are made for the full term, not for one month after an election. He has 4 years to get them done. If the economy is pressing, letting him take care of that first. I would expect the same if the Liberals had been in power. Or would you be carping about the Liberals backing off campaign promises based on vague sentences in a throne speech a month after the election. When the policies come, we'll discuss them then.
Keith, I have to call you on the hypocrisy of criticizing the Liberals for acting in partisan self-interest while condoning the utterly cynical and partisan performance of the CPC in this past election.
I never said I condoned the CPC's behaviour. I really had to put the nose clip on to vote for them this time. My vote this time had more to do with my concern about the devastation the Green Shift would bring in a recession than support for specific Conservative policies. And I stand by my contention that the Libs needed some time in the penalty box to renew themselves. So far, they're lack of an alternate vision is not inspiring confidence.
They created a policy platform they knew they couldn't fund, and obviously had no intention of implementing. You voted for them, and are still cheering for them. Incredible!
To my knowledge, their platform was far cheaper than the Liberal one. Please correct me if I am wrong. And they have 4 years to do it. A month in, is kind of a short time frame to judge how much of that platform will or not be fulfilled.
