Time and Space Condos (Pemberton) - Real Estate -

Peggy81 said:
Hi, Anyone has an estimation on closing date of this project? Do we know how much delay we should expect?
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hey to answer your question I have gotten notice from my agent that the builders pushing the date back from Nov 2020 to now May 2021.... but from what I'm hearing now it is pushed back now from May 2021 to October 2022 which really actually pissed me off. Hope that answers your question :(
 
loudpacckk said:
hey to answer your question I have gotten notice from my agent that the builders pushing the date back from Nov 2020 to now May 2021.... but from what I'm hearing now it is pushed back now from May 2021 to October 2022 which really actually pissed me off. Hope that answers your question :(
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Do you mean May 2021 to October 2021?, or the October 2022 wasn't a typo?
 
I said it was rumours because that's what I heard from my real estate agent and not from any builder documents. I refuse take a real estate agent for there word that's why I mentioned it as hear say or a "rumour" DSC. Also no typo what I heard was that it will be October 2022. Very disappointed.
 
To put things into perspective - construction (as opposed to demolition and removal of the previous buildings on the site) - as per Benito's picture in post 534, page 36 of the main Time and Space project thread, construction of Time and Space started the week of August 9, 2018 with shoring and excavation equipment on site and working. That is seventeen, almost eighteen months ago. And not yet at grade - it's still a fair ways from being at grade. Given the topology of the building, there will be relatively fewer 'typical floors' compared to a more conventional high rise tower - which can use the same forms over and over again, rinse and repeat.

Loudpacckk - please look at, and try to learn from the typical pace at which construction of condominium buildings in this city takes place, and then add in some common sense. Projects like CIBC Square are a rare exception in terms of the hours worked on a weekly basis. This is even rarer in residential, as opposed to commercial construction.

Maybe, just maybe, a late 2022 occupancy might be possible, if everything goes right, there are no strikes, no unexpected delays, and so on. But given the building, the current labour shortages, stresses on suppliers, and so on, personally, I would not be holding my breath.
 
Builds take a long time here. 5-7 years and something like this that takes up an entire block is going to be on the longer side. 2022 occupancy is doable for a portion of the building. Likely 2023
 
AHK said:
To put things into perspective - construction (as opposed to demolition and removal of the previous buildings on the site) - as per Benito's picture in post 534, page 36 of the main Time and Space project thread, construction of Time and Space started the week of August 9, 2018 with shoring and excavation equipment on site and working. That is seventeen, almost eighteen months ago. And not yet at grade - it's still a fair ways from being at grade. Given the topology of the building, there will be relatively fewer 'typical floors' compared to a more conventional high rise tower - which can use the same forms over and over again, rinse and repeat.

Loudpacckk - please look at, and try to learn from the typical pace at which construction of condominium buildings in this city takes place, and then add in some common sense. Projects like CIBC Square are a rare exception in terms of the hours worked on a weekly basis. This is even rarer in residential, as opposed to commercial construction.

Maybe, just maybe, a late 2022 occupancy might be possible, if everything goes right, there are no strikes, no unexpected delays, and so on. But given the building, the current labour shortages, stresses on suppliers, and so on, personally, I would not be holding my breath.
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Im simply comparing the timeline for the 158 Front St E condos and seeing what stage they are in now in comparison to 177. Maybe you should take a look at some developments near by in the area with similar tower size and other constraints then maybe make a more educated guess.
 
loudpacckk said:
Im simply comparing the timeline for the 158 Front St E condos and seeing what stage they are in now in comparison to 177. Maybe you should take a look at some developments near by in the area with similar tower size and other constraints then maybe make a more educated guess.
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1. Time and Space: 29 Floors St. Lawrence Condos 29 Floors Similar number of floors

2. Time and Space: 1586 Units. St. Lawrence Condos (158 Front Street): 490 Units. Not Similar tower size or unit count

3. Time and Space: Four Cranes, 396 Units per crane. St. Lawrence Condos: Two Cranes, 245 Units per crane. Not Similar - way more amount of construction work, number of lifts required per crane at Time and Space

4. Time and Space: Entire City Block St. Lawrence Condos: South portion of block (former Greyhound Bus Parcel Express operations site). Not Similar site size

5. St Lawrence Condos: Construction Start November 9, 2017, 27 Months ago (less a week) West section of the building is currently forming the 7th floor, East section of the building is forming the 5th Floor.

6. Time and Space: Construction Start Week of August 9, 2018 18 Months ago (less a week). Still well down below grade, especially at the south end. Final crane still not installed.

But here is where it gets interesting. On November 2nd, 2019, St. Lawrence Condos was forming the 3rd Floor on the east portion of the building, and the 5th Floor on the west portion of the building. On February 2nd, two months later, St. Lawrence Condos is forming the 5th floor on the east side, and the 7th floor on the west side of the building. That is two floors over a nine week period. Allowing for the time off over Christmas, that is about one floor every four weeks. For a 29 floor building, that means 22 - 24 floors to go, or at that rate, approximately two more years to topping off. I suspect that the pace will pick up a bit, and the building will be topped off somewhere between 15 and 18 months from now. Then to complete all the interior construction of the suiltes, the building's electrical, mechanical, life safety systems to the point to where occupancy permits can be issued and initial occupancy can take place will generally be between 9 and 12 months after topping off - depending on the builder and the site specific requirements. (Cranes come down around three to six months after topping off, and occupancy around six months or so after cranes come down.) So for St. Lawrence Condos, looking at initial occupancy at best, somewhere around 24 months or two years from now, possibly as late as 30 months or so, or around two and a half years from now. In calendar terms, sometime between the 2021/2022 winter through summer of 2022 for initial occupancy. And this is for a building with just over a quarter of the number of units in Time and Space.

Time and Space is tracking at least one year behind St. Lawrence Condos, and is progressing at a slower rate to date. Occupancy in 2023 if all goes well, later if it does not.

That is my 'maybe make a more educated guess'. With over forty years of project management experience, I have a general feel on what it takes to get things done. And thanks for your gratuitous and insulting comment.

What is your 'more educated' guess? With some justification please, if you can....

(Edited to add number of units per crane.)
 
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loudpacckk said:
hey to answer your question I have gotten notice from my agent that the builders pushing the date back from Nov 2020 to now May 2021.... but from what I'm hearing now it is pushed back now from May 2021 to October 2022 which really actually pissed me off. Hope that answers your question :(
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Thanks for the update. Our agent just asked the builder about it and they said they haven't received any notification from their customer care team regarding any delays. I think they are not going to officially let people know for now. :(
 
AHK said:
1. Time and Space: 29 Floors St. Lawrence Condos 29 Floors Similar number of floors

2. Time and Space: 1586 Units. St. Lawrence Condos (158 Front Street): 490 Units. Not Similar tower size or unit count

3. Time and Space: Four Cranes, 396 Units per crane. St. Lawrence Condos: Two Cranes, 245 Units per crane. Not Similar - way more amount of construction work, number of lifts required per crane at Time and Space

4. Time and Space: Entire City Block St. Lawrence Condos: South portion of block (former Greyhound Bus Parcel Express operations site). Not Similar site size

5. St Lawrence Condos: Construction Start November 9, 2017, 27 Months ago (less a week) West section of the building is currently forming the 7th floor, East section of the building is forming the 5th Floor.

6. Time and Space: Construction Start Week of August 9, 2018 18 Months ago (less a week). Still well down below grade, especially at the south end. Final crane still not installed.

But here is where it gets interesting. On November 2nd, 2019, St. Lawrence Condos was forming the 3rd Floor on the east portion of the building, and the 5th Floor on the west portion of the building. On February 2nd, two months later, St. Lawrence Condos is forming the 5th floor on the east side, and the 7th floor on the west side of the building. That is two floors over a nine week period. Allowing for the time off over Christmas, that is about one floor every four weeks. For a 29 floor building, that means 22 - 24 floors to go, or at that rate, approximately two more years to topping off. I suspect that the pace will pick up a bit, and the building will be topped off somewhere between 15 and 18 months from now. Then to complete all the interior construction of the suiltes, the building's electrical, mechanical, life safety systems to the point to where occupancy permits can be issued and initial occupancy can take place will generally be between 9 and 12 months after topping off - depending on the builder and the site specific requirements. (Cranes come down around three to six months after topping off, and occupancy around six months or so after cranes come down.) So for St. Lawrence Condos, looking at initial occupancy at best, somewhere around 24 months or two years from now, possibly as late as 30 months or so, or around two and a half years from now. In calendar terms, sometime between the 2021/2022 winter through summer of 2022 for initial occupancy. And this is for a building with just over a quarter of the number of units in Time and Space.

Time and Space is tracking at least one year behind St. Lawrence Condos, and is progressing at a slower rate to date. Occupancy in 2023 if all goes well, later if it does not.

That is my 'maybe make a more educated guess'. With over forty years of project management experience, I have a general feel on what it takes to get things done. And thanks for your gratuitous and insulting comment.

What is your 'more educated' guess? With some justification please, if you can....

(Edited to add number of units per crane.)
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Pretty far away from 2020.....my friend bought into this project when daniel's lighthouse east tower was available at the same time! daniel's is on track for completion this year
 
This seems to be a much bigger build than the two Lighthouse towers though. I don't remember if they have different phases of development for Time and Space, but it's possible some folks will move in while construction is still going on in other parts of the block.

Edit: I should mention that it does seem much more delayed than the Lighthouse towers regardless. Permit issues possibly?, or didn't they find contaminated soil?
 
beautifulwar said:
is this supposed to be a luxury building? my friend really had no clue what he was buying into
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It's not a luxury building. I don't think it has been advertised as such anywhere. Luxury buildings are usually boutique buildings where every unit is in the millions, and do not offer units of the average range prices and sized.
The occupancy date given on the initial contract is established before even the building sale starts. It is very common for this initial date to be postponed, in fact i have not heard of any developments that have not pushed the first occupancy date they provided. The developer is required to inform buyers of a revised date only 6 months prior to the previous occupancy date previously provided. Even if they are aware of delays now, they are not required to provide a revised date just yet. From my previous experience with preconstruction, expect at least a couple revised occupancy dates before a firm one is set. It's unfortunate that when buying into preconstruction a lot of buyers are misinformed and have expectations that are not realistic. So far, there is nothing in this development that is out of the ordinary, not explained in the contract or not in line with industry practices in Toronto. And i say this as a buyer, who also is looking forward to move in.
 
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