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Theoretical question involving an NFL team in Toronto

C

Copper1212

Guest
The rumours have heated up again about Toronto and the NFL, this time involving Ted Rogers and Larry Tannenbaum.

Anyway the question is where would you build the stadium? I haven't heard too much discussion on that issue. If you look at most NFL stadiums they are near a highway and have gigantic parking lots, this is something Toronto stadiums and arenas have always avoided in favour of downtown sites with public transit links. Skydome BTW is not a realistic option for the long term.

Again this is just a theoritical question, not suggesting Toronto will ever actually or even needs to get an NFL team. That's a whole other issue.
 
Today's article in the Star mentioned they would retrofit the Dome to expand capacity. Why exactly is the Dome not realistic?
 
nfl wants more luxury suites to accomadate huge corporate sponsors and rogers centre can still use some spiffing up. and
i think there is a capacity issue.currently only one stadium in the nfl is smaller than rogers (rca dome in indy)by capacity.
francises are said to be going for a billion dollars but when two big boys want something ,they get.alot of behind the scenes stuff is happening if it has gotten out in the media.
ted rogers and larry tannenbaum do not express their desires
to the media to be rejected,they are confident enough to reveal.
 
Realistically, don't expect to see an NFL franchise in Toronto until atleast 10 years from now.

They'd have to build a new stadium. Maybe on the site where they proposed to build the 2008 Olympic Stadium. Will that area still be available in 10 years time?

Los Angeles is the next city to receive an NFL franchise. What's the latest news on their plans? The last I heard was that they'll be entering the league in 2 years.
 
Indeed, the NFL acknowledged they want back in LA before anything else.
 
Boys and their toys. And Leaf fans (and taxpayers) will likely get screwed more. I say forget the NFL.

I liked this column in the Star.

NFL deal is just a start
Taxpayers, get ready to hold onto your wallets again
Sep. 6, 2006. 10:32 AM
DAVE PERKINS

First, the disclaimer: No taxpayers were harmed yesterday as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment and Rogers Communications officially rolled back the covers to begin consummating what undoubtedly will turn into a multi-billion-dollar sporting marriage.

The goring of the taxpayer assuredly will come later.

For the time being, there was Ted (Uncle Junior) Rogers smiling broadly from behind his Toronto Maple Leafs jersey, finally and officially in the MLSE fold, as Larry Tanenbaum, his friend and Forest Hill neighbour, giggled like a young bride.

The first step is a sponsorship deal, Uncle Junior's telecommunications giant handing over a few measly million in a six-year deal to provide services to MLSE and, as King Richard Peddie put it, "to deliver our teams' content over many platforms.''

By that he means Leafs, Raptors, Marlies until they move away and the soccer team until it folds. Rogers provides a cable TV carrier, phone company, wireless provider, you name it. Don't be surprised if, one day, it all shakes down into pay-TV for Leaf games.

"We'll see where technology takes us,'' Uncle Junior said of the great unknown, but it sounds as if sooner rather than later you'll be able to watch Maple Leaf goals on your Rogers cell phone.

"For the appropriate fee, of course,'' he said, maintaining the correct $pirit.

The big dream, as was written here before and finally was confirmed by both men yesterday, is joint proprietorship of an NFL franchise for Toronto. That would be both Tanenbaum and Rogers as individuals, rather than MLSE and Rogers Communications, based on NFL ownership requirements. A few of the principals are jetting away to Cleveland, on Larry's private jet, to finalize a 2007 or 2008 NFL regular-season game in Toronto, likely a Browns game, as a precursor to landing an NFL franchise. Phil Lind, No. 2 man at Rogers, has been making nice with Roger Goodell, the incoming commissioner of the NFL.

Sure, sure, you've heard it all before about an NFL team for Toronto. But here are two awfully rich guys, governments in their pockets, already sharing their sports toys, now going public about the NFL. Asked the standard question about a suitable stadium, Tanenbaum mumbled about Rogers — and the Rogers Centre — now being part of the team.

But Larry likes to pour concrete. That's his business. It's not a stretch to see these two trying to line up our gullible governments to provide a new NFL-suitable stadium — and you just know who will be allowed to pay for it: (Read back to that first paragraph).

That's down the road. The majority of this new partnership obviously is.

"Larry and I have been successful in getting our groups together,'' Rogers said. "We hope to have more joint ventures in the future (but) as far as ownership (of MLSE) there have been no discussions.''

They'll start small, but both Uncle Junior and Larry made repeated references to more marketing opportunities and expanding the brand and so on. Nobody ever mentioned the word championship, but why bother? They never need to around here.

In the meantime, look at the other part of this deal. It's Rogers replacing Bell as communications provider and that much is significant. Bell Globemedia, a fraction of which is owned by the high sheriffs around this paper, owns 15 per cent of MLSE. That's actually two points more than Tanenbaum's holding company owns and Tanenbaum has first right of refusal if any MLSE ownership stock comes into play.

Now, think about it. Bell and Rogers are bitter rivals in the cup-and-string universe. Would any company in a strong ownership position allow its main competitor into an asset? No chance.

Both Tanenbaum and Peddie said ownership provides no exclusivity and that MLSE makes deals according to what's best for MLSE, not for any part-owner. Maybe, but it looks more likely as if Tanenbaum will end up with the Bell Globemedia ownership share, particularly considering the recent passing of Ken Thomson, the main individual player in Bell Globemedia.

It has been mentioned here before that things are happening at the top level of MLSE and it became official yesterday, when Rogers puts his/its foot in the Maple Leaf door. It's the beginning of big things, all right.
 
Here's another article from The Star this morning:

Would Buffalo Bills ever move to Toronto?
86-year-old owner of NFL franchise foe of relocation But new owner might be tempted

in post-Wilson era
Sep. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM
MORGAN CAMPBELL
SPORTS REPORTER


The owners of the Leafs and the Jays have finally admitted in public that they plan to work together to lure an NFL franchise to Toronto.

Larry Tanenbaum of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment has even said he's ready to accommodate a team and is waiting for the league to give him the word.

He might be waiting a while, since the NFL already has 32 teams and the league has said it has no plans to expand soon.

But what about relocation?

Since 1988 five NFL franchises — the Cardinals, Rams, Raiders, Browns/Ravens and Oilers/Titans — have changed cities.

It's pure conjecture right now, but the slimmest of possibilities exists that the next team to relocate might wind up in Toronto.

With an 86-year-old owner who has expressed no clear plan for the franchise for after he dies, an address less than 90 minutes from Toronto, and a stadium lease that expires in less than a decade — could that team be the Buffalo Bills?

Yesterday team officials weren't prepared to talk about the possibility of the NFL in Toronto, much less the Bills moving there.

"The question about Toronto is an NFL question, not a local team question," said Bills spokesperson Scott Berchtold.

Though Berchtold and Russ Brandon, the Bills' VP of business operations, said the team has no plans to move, the team does have a relatively old stadium, the impetus behind most NFL relocations.

Thirty-three-year-old Ralph Wilson Stadium has forced the team to consider moving before. But they didn't consider it long.

In 1998 the Bills faced a pair of developments that threatened their tenure at Ralph Wilson Stadium in suburban Orchard Park. First was the expiration of their 25-year lease on the park, second was the stadium's condition. The building needed more seats and new luxury boxes, and although state government had pledged $63 million (all figures U.S., the Bills wouldn't qualify for the grant unless they could find $11 million on their own.

If the team couldn't raise the money through premium ticket sales, the only other choice would have been to find a new city. But Berchtold says moving was never an option.

"At the time nobody in the organization was thinking about moving," he said, adding that the team signed a 15-year lease at Wilson Stadium in 1998. "We were all concentrating on $11 million and making that goal. I don't know anyone in the organization, from (owner) Mr. Wilson on down who ever thought about leaving Buffalo."

Not only was 86-year-old owner Ralph Wilson against moving in 1998, he has also voted against every relocation bid that has come up since he has owned the Bills.

But even the team's top staff doesn't know what plans — if any — Wilson has for the team for after he dies.

"We have no idea what he's going to do," Berchtold said. "You'd have to ask Mr. Wilson. He's been asked that question before, but he's never really answered it."

Wilson is committed to other small markets — this year he joined a committee tasked with making the league's revenue-sharing agreement friendlier to small market franchises. But there's no guarantee a new owner would feel the same way, especially with a huge market less than two hours away.

According to Nielsen Media, Buffalo is the 49th-largest television market in the U.S. If Toronto were included in those rankings it would place fifth, behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia.

Other Buffalo businesses have already noticed Toronto's drawing power. Last month Buffalo's urban radio station, WBLK, sponsored a concert by soul songstress Anita Baker at Ontario Place. This month it's holding a contest to meet R&B sensation Beyonce Knowles after her concert — in Toronto.

The Bills realize thousands of Canadians cross the border for their home games, and they plan to keep building the popularity of the Bills brand in the GTA.

But they plan to do it from Buffalo.

"We've made strides in southern Ontario in our ticket (sales) and marketing program," Brandon said. "Southern Ontario is part of our marketing plan and it always has been."
 
According to the government, taxpayers won't be on the hook if the city does end up with an NFL franchise and needs to build a new stadium.



Public funds for NFL out of bounds
Governments cool to idea of tax aid
Impact on CFL's health also a worry
Sep. 7, 2006. 05:25 AM
GABE GONDA
STAFF REPORTER


An NFL franchise would be great for Toronto — so long as it doesn't cost taxpayers or hurt the CFL.

That was the response of local politicians a day after communications mogul Ted Rogers and Toronto Maple Leafs chair Larry Tanenbaum declared their interest in bringing a team from the U.S.-based National Football League to Canada.

"If Mr. Tanenbaum and Mr. Rogers want to speak to the city, of course, we'd speak to them," Mayor David Miller told reporters at city hall yesterday. "As long as the NFL comes here and it can be done in a way that supports the CFL, great. But the CFL's health is important for the whole country, I think."

Miller was blunt when asked if the city would offer financial aid."No," he said.

Miller's main opponent in the Nov. 13 municipal election, Councillor Jane Pitfield, agreed.

"In terms of financial support, I would prefer to see it financed through the private sector," Pitfield said in a phone interview. "I know the NFL is extremely popular, but my concern is the impact it would have on our Toronto Argonauts team."

Premier Dalton McGuinty told reporters at Queen's Park that the province was also unlikely to give money for a stadium which could cost $500 million.

So where does this kind of political support leave Rogers and Tanenbaum?

One former NFL executive said that without public financing for a new stadium — the Rogers Centre is too old and too small, he says — the duo would be hard-pressed to raise the money. A recent Forbes magazine article estimated the average value of an NFL franchise at about $900 million (U.S.) — meaning the team-plus-stadium cost would be well over $1 billion.

But Paul Godfrey, president of the Rogers-owned Toronto Blue Jays, says his boss is prepared to go the private sector route, not going to government.

The former Metro Toronto chairman and newspaper publisher has long been linked with efforts to attract an NFL franchise to Toronto. He says Rogers and Tanenbaum could finance their project by selling seats at a new stadium to subscribers for between $5,000 and $15,000.

"If you had a 60,000-seat stadium and sold (seats) for an average of $10,000, you'd raise $600 million," he said. "You can build a hell of a stadium for that kind of money."

Godfrey said the Rogers Centre would also be a good venue for an NFL franchise. The former SkyDome seats 56,000 and was opened in 1989 for $600 million, much of the cost borne by taxpayers. Rogers Communications bought the building for $25 million in 2004.

The NFL has 32 teams. While there are no immediate plans for expansion, Los Angeles has been pressing hard for a new team. Godfrey and the former NFL team executive both said Toronto would do well to tie its bid for a new franchise to L.A.'s, since the NFL prefers an even number of teams.

Relocating a franchise to Toronto is a another possibility
 
As much as I would love to see an NFL franchise in Toronto, it's not going to happen. An NFL team will cost somewhere in the area of $1B US and I can't see a good business case. If Tanenbaum and Rogers are so business savvy they would see this, but ego's get in the way of rational business decisions. I go see at least 1 or 2 Argo games at Rogers Centre and they put on a real good show and very affordable. Most diehard NFL fans in the city make the trek to Buffalo, Pittsburg and Detroit to catch a game. I've been to a couple of Bill's games the last few seasons and thats more than enough for me.
BTW there are rumours the NFL is testing the waters for a developmental league consisting of teams in Europe, Mexico and Canada. The NFL already has an agreement with the CFL regarding NFLers playing here aka. Ricky Williams.
 
I think Rogers and Tanenbaum just want to have the bragging rights to say "I brought the NFL to Toronto and Canada when everyone thought it was impossible and never going to happen"
 
The NFL would definitely be a success here, but I understand the concerns about the Argos and the league- it is afterall a long Canadian tradition. However the fact remains that the CFL these days is quite inferior in quality and generally regarded among football fans as bush league. It's a safe bet that most serious football fans in Toronto would like to see an NFL team here.

As for a stadium- the Skydome would suffice for a few seasons, especially if it was refitted to hold over 60,000 and more sponsorship boxes. I don't see the stadium issue being a problem at all in the short-term. For a new facility- North York would be a good option, with the airport, the 401, and three subway lines at hand.
 
NFL

I would love to see the NFL in Toronto. As far as I know, an NFL stadium MUST hold 80,000 people, minimum!. Now, retrofitting the SkyDome is out of the question... Even for wrestling it only holds 54,000, I think it would be almost impossible to add 26,000 seats to that monster. My idea would be to build a stadium ON the water and have underground parking. It would be an architectural feat, and a huge draw for those NFL fans of the US.
 
Re: NFL

Yeah, it sounds great but the taxpayers better not be paying for this new stadium.
 

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