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The Weather

gabe said:
Some pictures of the destruction in Barrie.

www.cambridgetoday.ca

ONTARIO: Photos show devastation of tornado damage in Barrie (9 photos)

There is extensive damage in the Prince William Way and Majestic Boulevard area of south Barrie
www.cambridgetoday.ca www.cambridgetoday.ca
Click to expand...

Barrie is part of Ontario's Tornado Alley. Lots of serious damage in those pics. Barrie has seen similar before.

Makes me wonder; tornados rarely seem to strike at the heart of big cities..........but as Barrie starts to go vertical, I wonder how well future towers there would hold up against such an assault. I imagine the structure would be ok; (I'd hope) but the glazing?

Second, related thought, is code adequate for SFH in tornado-prone areas? You see 1 or more houses in that photo spread with the 2nd floor all but erased.....perhaps a bit more sturdyness is in order.
 
Northern Light said:
Barrie is part of Ontario's Tornado Alley. Lots of serious damage in those pics. Barrie has seen similar before.

Makes me wonder; tornados rarely seem to strike at the heart of big cities..........but as Barrie starts to go vertical, I wonder how well future towers there would hold up against such an assault. I imagine the structure would be ok; (I'd hope) but the glazing?

Second, related thought, is code adequate for SFH in tornado-prone areas? You see 1 or more houses in that photo spread with the 2nd floor all but erased.....perhaps a bit more sturdyness is in order.
Click to expand...

You raise a valid concern with the current trend of 'glazed wall' buildings and I agree that the structures themselves are probably robust. There is an argument by some that a large, dense urban area with lots of very tall structures might actually break up the air currents of a relatively small tornado.

I'm not aware of any particular weather or environmental related Code requirements for select areas of the province unlike some areas of the US and BC. Things like 'hurricane ties' are relatively inexpensive but are really only designed to work against roof uplift. By the looks of some of the pics, the wind started peeling at the outer cladding - the brick - then the sub-walls and started peeling the upper floor away, leaving nothing to hold the roof. Of course, and Code changes are only applied on a 'go forward' basis.

It will be interesting to see the analysis. This area typically gets EF0s, perhaps the odd EF1. This looks like it could be a 1 or 2. The supercell cluster that hit the area in 1985 were 3s and 4s, although, judging by the videos posted,, this one was physically relatively small.
 
lenaitch said:
You raise a valid concern with the current trend of 'glazed wall' buildings and I agree that the structures themselves are probably robust. There is an argument by some that a large, dense urban area with lots of very tall structures might actually break up the air currents of a relatively small tornado.
Click to expand...

*nods*

lenaitch said:
I'm not aware of any particular weather or environmental related Code requirements for select areas of the province unlike some areas of the US and BC.
Click to expand...

*nods*

lenaitch said:
Things like 'hurricane ties' are relatively inexpensive but are really only designed to work against roof uplift.
Click to expand...

*nods*

lenaitch said:
By the looks of some of the pics, the wind started peeling at the outer cladding - the brick - then the sub-walls and started peeling the upper floor away, leaving nothing to hold the roof. Of course, and Code changes are only applied on a 'go forward' basis.
Click to expand...

Here....a bit more to say........it does not have to be this way. California required retrofits for earthquake proofing, as has BC depending on building type.
Various jurisdictions (not Ontario) have required retrofits for sprinklers.
Sometimes the retrofit rule is triggered by renovation; sometimes by a hard date.

lenaitch said:
It will be interesting to see the analysis. This area typically gets EF0s, perhaps the odd EF1. This looks like it could be a 1 or 2. The supercell cluster that hit the area in 1985 were 3s and 4s, although, judging by the videos posted,, this one was physically relatively small.
Click to expand...

*nods*
 
Northern Light said:
Here....a bit more to say........it does not have to be this way. California required retrofits for earthquake proofing, as has BC depending on building type.
Various jurisdictions (not Ontario) have required retrofits for sprinklers.
Sometimes the retrofit rule is triggered by renovation; sometimes by a hard date.
Click to expand...

If those other jurisdictional update requirements include residential, I wasn't aware. I assume their rules are similar to ours regarding home renovations that trigger an updated code cycle. Building codes and manufacturers specify installation standards, fastener type, size, spacing, etc. When we had our deck rebuilt, it was inspected three times; I can't say I've ever seen an inspector on a roof looking at nailing patterns.

I was trying to study some of the media footage last night and it does appear that there was some uplift to roof structures, likely caused by wind entry via openings (open/damaged windows). I'm always amazed at the fickleness (for want of a better word) of tornadoes. One house with extensive structural damage yet its neighbour with nary a shingle missing. I was part of the response to the 1985 event and recall two adjacent backyards, both with in-ground pools. One was sucked dry and the other still had its solar blanket on. Weird.
 
lenaitch said:
If those other jurisdictional update requirements include residential, I wasn't aware. I assume their rules are similar to ours regarding home renovations that trigger an updated code cycle. Building codes and manufacturers specify installation standards, fastener type, size, spacing, etc. When we had our deck rebuilt, it was inspected three times; I can't say I've ever seen an inspector on a roof looking at nailing patterns.

I was trying to study some of the media footage last night and it does appear that there was some uplift to roof structures, likely caused by wind entry via openings (open/damaged windows). I'm always amazed at the fickleness (for want of a better word) of tornadoes. One house with extensive structural damage yet its neighbour with nary a shingle missing. I was part of the response to the 1985 event and recall two adjacent backyards, both with in-ground pools. One was sucked dry and the other still had its solar blanket on. Weird.
Click to expand...

Interesting tidbit here for Ontario, about the Firecode, (not the building Code)

1626443178853.png


From: http://www.freemanrealty.com/fire-code-standards
 
Northern Light said:
Barrie is part of Ontario's Tornado Alley. Lots of serious damage in those pics. Barrie has seen similar before.

Makes me wonder; tornados rarely seem to strike at the heart of big cities..........but as Barrie starts to go vertical, I wonder how well future towers there would hold up against such an assault. I imagine the structure would be ok; (I'd hope) but the glazing?

Second, related thought, is code adequate for SFH in tornado-prone areas? You see 1 or more houses in that photo spread with the 2nd floor all but erased.....perhaps a bit more sturdyness is in order.
Click to expand...

Imagine a tornado hits Brampton or Mississauga, where tens of thousands of houses are built on the cheap, packed close together. Thrown up with as quick as possible, with the cheapest materiel. The destruction would be horrendous.



https://twitter.com/x/status/1415980015833993220
 
gabe said:
Imagine a tornado hits Brampton or Mississauga, where tens of thousands of houses are built on the cheap, packed close together. Thrown up with as quick as possible, with the cheapest materiel. The destruction would be horrendous.



https://twitter.com/x/status/1415980015833993220
Click to expand...

The link makes a good observation. These are tract-built (subdivision) houses built to a price point, as opposed to custom builds. Like every other industry, there are good and less good builders and tradespersons. He makes an assumption that there were no connections, but it could be that there were not enough. Time and material are money. Most home buyers seldom look beyond the superficial, but there are certain elements even the most critical and discerning buyer, or even home inspectors (which is an unregulated industry in Ontario) could never hope to be able the check.

Structural engineers and insurance adjusters will no doubt be all over things like this, but I think trying to hold the builder liable would be a fool's errant. It is events like this that inform future recommendations of the agencies such as the NRC, insurance industry, etc.
Coolstar said:
We did it. Iqaluit is now warmer than Toronto.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1416176995013115911

View attachment 335465
Click to expand...

You say that like it is a good thing? One-off temperature anomalies are one thing but I think the longer term trends and patterns are fairly clear.
 
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