The Weather

[Northern Light]

Toronto’s mean annual temperature is 9.4 degrees Celsius. We don’t need to reduce the heat island effect, we need to increase it!

That is an entirely preposterous, outlandish and irresponsible statement.

Many of the heat island mitigation ideas created for warmer Cities aren’t really logical for us because of our generally cold weather.

Precisely which ideas are you talking about?

We really just need to get through a few months of sporadic daytime heat waves.

We have a not had a daytime humidex reading under 32 in the last 3 weeks; nor a single night under 19 (which is 4 degrees over our historic norm)

I don't know what City your living in................

As someone who works from home a great deal of the time, I have 3 air conditioners, including one in my home office.

It is 27C in here right now as I type............that's not factoring in the 65% humidity.

It is profoundly uncomfortable; and a huge portion of our population has no air conditioning or much less than I.

There is an urgent need to address this!

Plant more trees and gardens. Smarter use of awnings.

Sure, absolutely. That will, however affect the total temperature by less than 1C

To reduce our temperature to the same as more rural areas, we need substantial de-paving of parking lots, large numbers of new trees in same, narrower roads, green roofs and more.

Tap into natural reservoirs of cold like our lakes and the ground under our feet.

What?

The rest of the year we need to concentrate on how to more efficiently capture heat.

Sure, but you know that isn't the opposite of the urban heat island effect; we're not going to use that heat to warm the outdoors in winter.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Toronto’s mean annual temperature is 9.4 degrees Celsius. We don’t need to reduce the heat island effect, we need to increase it!

Many of the heat island mitigation ideas created for warmer Cities aren’t really logical for us because of our generally cold weather. We really just need to get through a few months of sporadic daytime heat waves.

Plant more trees and gardens. Smarter use of awnings. Tap into natural reservoirs of cold like our lakes and the ground under our feet.

The rest of the year we need to concentrate on how to more efficiently capture heat.

The Great Lakes cause a moderating effect on our local weather. The waters tend to absorb the heat more slower than the land, until late summer; the reverse in early winter towards late winter. The negative is they increase the humidity (and snowsqualls).

 

[lenaitch]

Toronto’s mean annual temperature is 9.4 degrees Celsius. We don’t need to reduce the heat island effect, we need to increase it!

Many of the heat island mitigation ideas created for warmer Cities aren’t really logical for us because of our generally cold weather. We really just need to get through a few months of sporadic daytime heat waves.

Plant more trees and gardens. Smarter use of awnings. Tap into natural reservoirs of cold like our lakes and the ground under our feet.

The rest of the year we need to concentrate on how to more efficiently capture heat.

The goal should be to return the area climate to be as close as it would be naturally, not engineer it to something artificial to suit preferences.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I don’t think my comment was outlandish. The fact is Toronto is one of the coldest major cities in the world. Our problem is reducing the amount of energy required to produce the amount of heat required to make the City livable for humans. What percent of the year is Toronto uncomfortably hot? Maybe 12 hours a day for 30 days. That works out to 4% of the time.

I’m not saying A/C isn’t necessary or an important health requirement but really cold not heat is our main concern.

An example of heat island mitigation principle is painting roofs white or silver. Not appropriate for Toronto because for much of the year we benefit from the solar gain. In Norway for example they use glossy black roof tiles.

 

[Ingluvies]

It's quite rainy today with Isolated thunderstorms. Hope it won't rain that much today because I have a list of tasks to do. Installation of our Kohler Cimmaron toilet https://bestflushingtoilets.org/kohler-toilet/kohler-cimarron-review/ will be today as well, so its better not to.

 

[Northern Light]

I don’t think my comment was outlandish. The fact is Toronto is one of the coldest major cities in the world. Our problem is reducing the amount of energy required to produce the amount of heat required to make the City livable for humans. What percent of the year is Toronto uncomfortably hot? Maybe 12 hours a day for 30 days. That works out to 4% of the time.

I’m not saying A/C isn’t necessary or an important health requirement but really cold not heat is our main concern.

An example of heat island mitigation principle is painting roofs white or silver. Not appropriate for Toronto because for much of the year we benefit from the solar gain. In Norway for example they use glossy black roof tiles.

I stand by what I said as you double-down on a commentary so problem-laden I can't begin to address it.

First, the climate should not be adapted for human convenience in the way you describe, it is killing and will kill off not dozens, not hundreds but thousands of species without exaggeration to follow that course of logic.

If its too cold outside in the winter, there's a fix for that, its called a coat.

As for the current warmth, which is somewhat anomalous in its longevity, It has been uncomfortable both day and night for weeks, ie. 24 hours per day.

Current trends with climate change, and with the urban heat island suggest we are trending to more of this, rather than less.

It is actually affecting the health of tens of thousands in the region, at least; and the comfort of hundreds of thousands.

Unlike winter and coats there is no comparable summer solution.

That is to say, most of us cannot function in our daily lives completely naked at work or out shopping or even in our own homes (though I suppose nudism is permissible and fine, but most wouldn't be ok w/that I expect)

Even then, its still hard on the breathing of many. I don't have asthma, or copd, don't smoke, I'm only middle-aged, and I find it problematic even with air conditioning.

I have no idea what's possessed you to run with this idea but its verging on trolling its so ridiculous.

I feel your views have become much less rooted in logic and evidence in the past few years; you used to contribute thoughtful posts with a right-ward slant.

You're now posting material that Fox News would reject for implausibility.

 

[AlbertC]

Some much welcomed further rainfall yesterday. Giving us a break with temperatures back into the mid-late 20's until at least Mon-Tuesday. Nighttime temperatures also within a more comfortable range. Although the heat is expected to be back going into next weekend.

 

[lenaitch]

Searches on the Interweb for 'coldest', 'large city', major city', etc. result in largely subjective clickbait but, having said that, I did it anyway 'cuz it's Sunday morning. Not one returned a list that included Toronto. Anyone who thinks Toronto is too cold for human habitation has never spent time in Ottawa, Winnipeg or Edmonton during the winter let alone travelled the world, and to celebrate or promote climate modification to reduce energy consumption strikes me as the height of human hubris.

 

[Johnny Au]

Searches on the Interweb for 'coldest', 'large city', major city', etc. result in largely subjective clickbait but, having said that, I did it anyway 'cuz it's Sunday morning. Not one returned a list that included Toronto. Anyone who thinks Toronto is too cold for human habitation has never spent time in Ottawa, Winnipeg or Edmonton during the winter let alone travelled the world, and to celebrate or promote climate modification to reduce energy consumption strikes me as the height of human hubris.

Many professional athletes at first were skeptical of playing in Toronto (often for climate-related reasons) until they actually played there. Kawhi Leonard is one such athlete. When he was first traded to the Raptors, he wanted out because it was too cold for him. Now, Leonard considers Toronto his favourite city outside California.

 

[lenaitch]

Many professional athletes at first were skeptical of playing in Toronto (often for climate-related reasons) until they actually played there. Kawhi Leonard is one such athlete. When he was first traded to the Raptors, he wanted out because it was too cold for him. Now, Leonard considers Toronto his favourite city outside California.

Most likely borne out the general ignorance in the US about Canada and its climate (like the old story of Americans showing up at the border in the summer expecting to go skiing). Kinda curious that a professional in an indoor sport, who probably lived in a downtown condo, would worry about the weather then off-seasons in California. Did he never play the Timberwolves in Minneapolis?

 

[TrickyRicky]

Wow, some hair-trigger sensitivity here. I guess it is too hot!

I’m not suggesting general global climate modification. Localized climate modification and energy conservation are not goals of Fox News commentators they are general design principles of sustainable development, farmers, and the millions of people who created Toronto. You can say that’s wrong but it’s not offside. The delta between interior and exterior climate conditions in Toronto is around 11 degrees on average. Optimizing local energy inputs like solar gain, heat sinks etc. is just common sense and a general topic of interest on this site.

I guess the point that ruffled feathers was my (obviously light-hearted) turn on the phrase “heat island”. I’m talking about localized heat islands within urban spaces and built environments. I’m not talking about engineering global climate change. Like I design my yard specifically to create microclimates that mitigate heat during the summer but maximize the temperature during shoulder seasons.

On the point of Toronto’s temperature of course it’s a livable city but it’s factually correct to point out it’s one of the coldest major cities in the world. It’s not THE coldest and I never said it was. You can refer to tables on mean average temperature of global cities for reference. Most major cities must necessarily concern themselves with heat mitigation strategies. A university of Berkeley study suggested the most productive mean annual temperature for human habitation was 14 degrees. For reference that’s a bit warmer than New York but a bit colder than Tokyo.

Finally, I don’t address personal attacks generally because my point of writing comments is to help myself think through and bounce around ideas; however, my ideas however “right” or “wrong” are never designed to stifle debate.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I've been working on a metal roof with 0% shade cover for the last two months. Temperatures exceeding 70C radiating heat from all sides. I've lost weight....though only fat and water so I'm doing ok for the ladies at the beach.
Haven't had a run like that in a few years. Last one I remember was in 2013. Not to mention the past winter having been the warmest here in my lifetime.

Tell me again about how cold it is here. No, wait......come to my current project, have a seat and expound. I'll even fry you up some eggs.

I'm not sure mean temperature is a useful metric. Our mean temperature is only so low because our temperature range here is also among the top for a city in the world, if we want to talk about top city lists.

We have a regular 60C + temperature range......that's extreme as far as most of the world is concerned. Your 9C mean here isn't the same as it would be if our temperature range was only around 30C like it is in many cities around the world.

Anyway, I practically live outside. I'll let you know when Toronto becomes one of the coldest cities in the world.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Sunrise Champ, your points are all fair. Summer time in Toronto is particularly warm because we combine heat with long hours of sunshine unlike the equatorial regions.

That said I still think mean annual temperature is a good measure because it is meaningful to how much heating and cooling load you need, what the vegetation there is and what kind of clothing people would wear in a country. As mid-day active mammals we have a temperature bias related to mid-day temperatures. The earth is an icebox not a fireball. You may work on a hot roof at midday but your furnace has to heat effectively 24hrs a day.

P.S. I was looking at Cities colder than Toronto based on mean annual temperature and there were some interesting ones. Of note to you Prague and Warsaw are actually colder than Toronto surprisingly. Russian Cities like Moscow are colder than Toronto to a surprising degree but still warmer than Calgary and Edmonton. There are only three major US cities colder than Toronto: Anchorage, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis

P.P.S. I do physical work myself part-time so I understand your feeling about heat. My ideal working temperature is in the 14-degree range which corresponds well with the productivity study I mentioned

 

[Johnny Au]

Here's an interesting video on this topic from Atlas Pro:

 

[TrickyRicky]

Nice video. My kind of nerdy!