The Toronto Tree Thread

[Northern Light]

Another TREE ID video for everyone.

This one is a short one from the TRCA; and it just looks at how to tell two similar looking conifers apart.

Balsam Fir and Eastern Hemlock.

This is only 4min 26s.

So not a big time investment!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=887767105003413

 

[Northern Light]

Sometime ago, I'm sure I discussed that another tree species was under threat.

The Eastern Hemlock.

Its a beautiful, and long-lived species.

Its been under assault well to the south of us for a number of years, due an unintentional introduction of an Asian insect; woolly adelgids

Like Emerald Ash Borer before them (amongst others) they can entirely decimate a species almost out of existence.

This is something we also have experience with through the importation of Dutch Elm disease.

Globalization is offers many benefits, but some problems where people have made reckless choices that affect nature.

At any rate, the article below gives some hope that this pest may yet be brought under control before decimated our own stands of Hemlock.

Though some of the techniques involve introducing more non-native insects....................which does leave me with some concerns.

Hope for hemlocks: New tactics found to fight deadly pest

Several new scientific discoveries give hope that eastern hemlocks will not go the way of chestnut, elm and ash trees and largely disappear from forests in the Chesapeake Bay watershed.

www.bayjournal.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

Interesting vid on the demise of the American Chestnut tree.

This serves as a reminder of the dangers of introducing foreign species to North America. When I first bought my house in 1998 I wanted a red leafed tree for the yard so went to Sheridan Nursery and was recommended a red maple tree, but I found out later that I’d bought a Red Norway Maple an invasive species. It died off, but I was annoyed that I’d contributed to the problem,

I’ve replaced that tree now with an oak sapling that I rescued from my mother in law’s, about to be demolished front yard near the Beach(es) water filtration plant. It’s only 30 cm tall, lol, so if I live another 40 years I might see it come of something.

 

[Northern Light]

Interesting vid on the demise of the American Chestnut tree.

This serves as a reminder of the dangers of introducing foreign species to North America. When I first bought my house in 1998 I wanted a red leafed tree for the yard so went to Sheridan Nursery and was recommended a red maple tree, but I found one later that I’d bought a Japanese red maple, an invasive species. It died off, but I was annoyed that I’d contributed to the problem,

I’ve replaced that tree now with an oak sapling that I rescued from my mother in law’s, about to be demolished front yard. if I live another 40 years I might see it come of something.

If it puts your mind at ease...........

While Japanese Maple is non-native in Toronto; it is not considered invasive here, its in the category 'ornamental'.

I googled and did find a couple of links that implied otherwise........

So I checked with a couple of experts (emailed them); and both confirmed that the plant is not considered invasive in Ontario.

Like myself, neither has seen the tree reproduce in nature here.

That said, I'm very pleased to read of an oak in its place...............hopefully a native one!

 

[lenaitch]

I can't say I've seen that sign on any Hemlock around here, although it sounds like the infestation hasn't reached this far north yet.

I vaguely recall an article years ago, perhaps from U Guelph, that they were investigating if there were genetic differences in American Elm that made some resistant to Dutch Elm Disease, since it seemed that the disease affected the tree in a certain age range, and if they made it past that they were fine. If I recall they were putting out a call for folks who had old elms so they could do genetic testing. I don't know how it turned out. There are still old elms around, particularly old fence lines and country roadsides. A friend in Uxbridge had one taken down because it was old and dying and endangering his house. There is a reason it has little remaining commercial use - has a horrid twisting and interlocked grain.

it seems farther north another infestation is emerging:

Jack pine and spruce budworm outbreak threatens Crown forests

Province rolls out pest management plan for Northern Ontario

www.northernontariobusiness.com

Black spruce and Jack Pine are the dominant softwood species in the northern boreal.

 

[Northern Light]

it seems farther north another infestation is emerging:

Jack pine and spruce budworm outbreak threatens Crown forests

Province rolls out pest management plan for Northern Ontario

www.northernontariobusiness.com

Black spruce and Jack Pine are the dominant softwood species in the northern boreal.

Fortunately, the above is more of an ongoing cyclical issue with native insects rather than an invading pest.

Its regularly monitored by the MNR:

https://www.ontario.ca/page/native-insects-and-disease?utm_source=northern%20ontario%20business&utm_campaign=northern%20ontario%20business&utm_medium=referral

They are less of ecosystem threat than a financial one to the forest sector; as well they may increase the risk of forest fire.

 

[Northern Light]

I vaguely recall an article years ago, perhaps from U Guelph, that they were investigating if there were genetic differences in American Elm that made some resistant to Dutch Elm Disease, since it seemed that the disease affected the tree in a certain age range, and if they made it past that they were fine. If I recall they were putting out a call for folks who had old elms so they could do genetic testing. I don't know how it turned out. There are still old elms around, particularly old fence lines and country roadsides. A friend in Uxbridge had one taken down because it was old and dying and endangering his house. There is a reason it has little remaining commercial use - has a horrid twisting and interlocked grain.

This project:

Elm Recovery Project | The Arboretum

www.uoguelph.ca

 

[WislaHD]

If it puts your mind at ease...........

While Japanese Maple is non-native in Toronto; it is not considered invasive here, its in the category 'ornamental'.

I googled and did find a couple of links that implied otherwise........

So I checked with a couple of experts (emailed them); and both confirmed that the plant is not considered invasive in Ontario.

Like myself, neither has seen the tree reproduce in nature here.

That said, I'm very pleased to read of an oak in its place...............hopefully a native one!

So just for curiosity + further clarification, the tree isn't considered invasive because (despite being climatically similar) it fails to naturally reproduce here? Why might that be the case for a tree originating from a similar latitude?

 

[Northern Light]

So just for curiosity + further clarification, the tree isn't considered invasive because (despite being climatically similar) it fails to naturally reproduce here?

Correct. Non-Native is self-explanatory; but invasive means spreads aggressively, displacing native species in the process.

You can, in fact, have a native invasive. Something that generally belongs here, but by its nature is a very aggressive spreader which takes over an area at the expense of the existing species present.

A good example would be river grape. A species that belongs in our area; but can, in the right conditions kill the majority of vegetation over several acres of land.

But with a native invasive, nuisance aside, that's a natural function of the eco-system and one that self-corrects over time.

Why might that be the case for a tree originating from a similar latitude?

A variety of reasons may come into play.

A species may seem to have an ideal climate here; but may be missing rhizomes in the soil from back home; it may receive different levels of humidity, wind or extremes of temperature.

Ph levels in soil can affect what grows; so does whether the plant is an aggressive spreader in the first place (ie. how it does against competition)

Finally there's a question of whether there are natural controls on the species here (does anything eat it, bugs, fungus, animals, birds); does any species assist in spreading its seed? ; and are there any diseases here to which it may be subject.

This link shows you some of the threats that can control Japanese Maple:

Japanese Maple Diseases

japanesemaplelovers.com

Japanese Maples also tend to fail if exposed to temperatures much below - 18C

So they have some limits as you go north or in areas exposed to high wind.

They also don't like their feet wet; they require well-drained soils.

But the limitations of other species will vary.

As they do for the Japanese Maple which appears to be mildly invasive the further south you go.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So just for curiosity + further clarification, the tree isn't considered invasive because (despite being climatically similar) it fails to naturally reproduce here? Why might that be the case for a tree originating from a similar latitude?

The government of Canada has a list of regulated invasive species, but it’s mostly bugs, fungi, viruses and weeds.

Invasive species - Canada.ca

Protection, prevention, forests, aquatics, firewood, ships.

www.canada.ca

The Norway Maple is a big invasive species, but does not appear to be regulated by Ottawa. But this tree is a top priority to arborists https://treecanada.ca/resources/tree-killers/norway-maple/

 

[lrt's friend]

Correct. Non-Native is self-explanatory; but invasive means spreads aggressively, displacing native species in the process.

You can, in fact, have a native invasive. Something that generally belongs here, but by its nature is a very aggressive spreader which takes over an area at the expense of the existing species present.

A good example would be river grape. A species that belongs in our area; but can, in the right conditions kill the majority of vegetation over several acres of land.

But with a native invasive, nuisance aside, that's a natural function of the eco-system and one that self-corrects over time.



A variety of reasons may come into play.

A species may seem to have an ideal climate here; but may be missing rhizomes in the soil from back home; it may receive different levels of humidity, wind or extremes of temperature.

Ph levels in soil can affect what grows; so does whether the plant is an aggressive spreader in the first place (ie. how it does against competition)

Finally there's a question of whether there are natural controls on the species here (does anything eat it, bugs, fungus, animals, birds); does any species assist in spreading its seed? ; and are there any diseases here to which it may be subject.

This link shows you some of the threats that can control Japanese Maple:

Japanese Maple Diseases

japanesemaplelovers.com

Japanese Maples also tend to fail if exposed to temperatures much below - 18C

So they have some limits as you go north or in areas exposed to high wind.

They also don't like their feet wet; they require well-drained soils.

But the limitations of other species will vary.

As they do for the Japanese Maple which appears to be mildly invasive the further south you go.

Many trees cannot compete in our forests for a variety of reasons. While Manitoba Maple is a weed, it cannot outgrow trees in our natural forests at least in the longer-term. It will always give way to our native species. Japanese Maples also cannot outgrow our dominant hardwoods, like sugar maple. This is a natural control.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Many trees cannot compete in our forests for a variety of reasons.

True, but unfortunately the Norway Maple competes very well. Though, interestingly...

”The City of Toronto, not too long ago, planted Norway Maples on homeowners’ frontage: this has now ceased. The City has declared this species an ecological threat: in the city’s ravines and forests, the shallow roots of this invasive tree discourage surrounding plants from growing, most specifically, killing off native saplings.”

Growing Under a Norway Maple – Toronto Master Gardeners

www.torontomastergardeners.ca

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was going through the new documents that Waterfront Toronto posted for the Portlands and came across these two slides about planting and thought this was an educational opportunity.

View attachment 159241
View attachment 159242

Any particularly good selections? Any that are particularly bad, questionable or raise the eyebrow in some ways?

I want to plant a young oak in my Cabbagetown backyard. Which one is best? I want something that’s at least 6 ft tall now, and now that I’m 50 will grow fast enough so I can see some progress before I’m gone. Are there services that will deliver and plant trees? I recall the city had such a service but that the requirements were impossibly onerous, such as clearance from the property line.

 

[Northern Light]

I want to plant a young oak in my Cabbagetown backyard. Which one is best? I want something that’s at least 6 ft tall now, and now that I’m 50 will grow fast enough so I can see some progress before I’m gone. Are there services that will deliver and plant trees? I recall the city had such a service but that the requirements were impossibly onerous, such as clearance from the property line.

Most of the native oaks will tolerate similar conditions.

If you have soil that's less rich/drier, a Bur Oak might be slightly hardier.

However, Red Oak is the fastest grower, assuming good conditions.

All oaks need sun, they don't grow well in shade, and they tend to prefer somewhat sandier soils; but will do well in almost any good quality soil.

Red Oak is also probably the easiest to source at all sizes.

****

LEAF does backyard planting:

Toronto Homeowners | LEAF | Local Enhancement & Appreciation of Forests

www.yourleaf.org

You can also go with any number of private companies.

I would recommend www.ufora.ca, if you go that route.

****

Be sure and ask anyone you have plant about warranty. 2 years is pretty standard in the industry; but if you don't ask, you don't know.

Replacing mature trees will be pricey.

****

If size matters to you; you can get substantially larger trees; but they will cost substantially more. If you don't have a wide access to your backyard, that may also mean using a crane to lift the tree over your house.

****

Final thought, in my experience, its much better to plant nut-bearing trees (which oaks are); in the spring; I would avoid planting any tree in the heat of summer, but nut-bearers use a lot of energy in the fall and may be more prone
to failure if transplanted then.

 

[yoshirocks702]

Im trying out the backyard leaf program this year have my appointment at the end of the month, will try and update this thread on my experience.