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The Toronto Tree Thread

Ottawan said:
You're the best @Northern Light , this was great!
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You're quite welcome.

Oh, I don't recall if you mentioned if you have pets.

But Black Cherry leaves can be lethal if injested by pets (the flesh of the fruit is fine, but the pits and leaves, like Apples have cyanogenic compounds that convert to hydrogen cyanide on ingestion)

I've personally never heard of an animal dying of eating the leaves, most have the good sense not to.

But farmers used to worry about cattle eating them and keeling over.
 
TrickyRicky said:
https://www.macleans.ca/society/hea...be-why-your-allergies-keep-getting-worse/amp/

An interesting angle I hadn’t considered about urban tree selection
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It is absolutely an issue for allergy suffers, but also for wildlife.

its great that you planted that tree type that produces a fruit or nut; but not so much if every single one is male..........and the wildlife can't find or harvest any of said product.

Similarly, the soil (and wildlife) really benefit from leaves being left on the ground to rot, rather than raked up. (an issue with any sex of deciduous tree); but one similar enough to benefit from a comparable solution).

Trees planted in larger, open beds, with exposed soil/complimentary shrubs/grasses, or just mulch, where one is hopefully less inclined to worry about mess and more likely to let fallen fruit, nuts or leaves lie is hugely advantageous.

It promotes biodiversity in the species and sex of trees; in the range of complimentary plantings (as opposed to either a hard surface or a lawn) is better for the trees in terms of health, providing more nutrients, more moisture and less compaction.

Not every tree can be planted in such conditions, were that enforced, many of our sidewalks would be barren.

But this type of thinking can benefit school yards, front/back yards, parks, and some streetscapes.

Clearly any bed, in an urban setting, will have its limits, especially with larger trees.

As such part of change is also promoting maintenance and other mitigation strategies.
 
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WislaHD said:
Is there any liability from fallen tree fruits/seeds? Either deriving from private property or municipal property?
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Offhand, I'm only aware of one sort of on-point case, though there may be many more............which is Gallant v. Dugard, which concerned falling walnuts............and was dismissed. (though this was not a safety issue, but a nuisance one)

I couldn't find (only a cursory search) anything else truly on point, at least that was Canadian.

I did find a California precedent (which may or may not apply here) that suggests natural products of a tree (the case specifically dealt w/leaves) were not a liability for the owner of the tree. (sued by a neighbour who didn't want to rake, I gather, but I haven't read the case file).

That said, slip and fall litigation is a problem for the City. Usually related to ice.
 
Northern Light said:
Offhand, I'm only aware of one sort of on-point case, though there may be many more............which is Gallant v. Dugard, which concerned falling walnuts............and was dismissed. (though this was not a safety issue, but a nuisance one)

I couldn't find (only a cursory search) anything else truly on point, at least that was Canadian.

I did find a California precedent (which may or may not apply here) that suggests natural products of a tree (the case specifically dealt w/leaves) were not a liability for the owner of the tree. (sued by a neighbour who didn't want to rake, I gather, but I haven't read the case file).

That said, slip and fall litigation is a problem for the City. Usually related to ice.
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Fun neighbour! S/he probably yelled at clouds as well. My first reaction was 'typical American response' but we see similar picayune property interactions up here, but they don't normally end up in civil court - usually just social media or the news.

Interesting comment about sex of trees. Both our current and former property (farm) have numerous cherry trees (Black Cherry). Not one has ever fruited. My brother near Meaford have several that flower and fruit. I don't know if that is an observation of the trees or pollinators.
 
Don’t a bunch of tree varieties aggressively use their fallen leaves, needles etc. to promote monoculture in their surrounding? What’s the take then on leaving leaf matter etc. on the ground especially in an urban environment!

I’ve got a horse chestnut on a property and I thought I read somewhere their leaves are bad
 
TrickyRicky said:
Don’t a bunch of tree varieties aggressively use their fallen leaves, needles etc. to promote monoculture in their surrounding? What’s the take then on leaving leaf matter etc. on the ground especially in an urban environment!

I’ve got a horse chestnut on a property and I thought I read somewhere their leaves are bad
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Black Walnut throws off juglones, a chemical compound to discourage certain competing species.

Many species, however, are juglone tolerant. So its selective for which species its willing to share space with.

Butternut and Shagbark Hickory also produce juglones, but at much lower levels that wouldn't impact most species.

Juglones it should be noted are present in the root system, the bark, the leaves and fruit/nut.

There are no other species, to my knowledge that secure/optimize their environment in this particular way.

However, it is true that conifers as they shed needs drive changes in soil composition favourable to conifers.

Doubtless, other species also amend their environment, though not necessarily through leaf litter and said change by not adversely effect other species.

In general, leaf litter is significant net positive for tree health, soil health, and also provides wildlife habitat.

***

As to Horse Chestnut; I'm not aware of any specific issues w/the leaves.

The tree, however, is not native (native to Turkey) and is moderately invasive (not at the scale of Norway Maple, but definitely reproduces in our local ravines).
 
I reached out to Jaye Robinson's office about planting more trees in Sunnybrook Park. They told me that 575 new trees and 1050 new shrubs were planted in Sunnybrook Park (presumably recently). @Northern Light do you have any comments or insight on this recent round of planting?

Also, what would be the best way to get some of the sports fields and other barren patches of land treed? I've been hiking frequently at Sunnybrook this summer and I find most of the sports fields are a complete waste of space. Few people use them, even in the evenings and on weekends. I think repurposing half the fields would leave more than enough space for the occasional Frisbee, soccer and cricket games, while providing much needed shade.
 
kali said:
I reached out to Jaye Robinson's office about planting more trees in Sunnybrook Park. They told me that 575 new trees and 1050 new shrubs were planted in Sunnybrook Park (presumably recently). @Northern Light do you have any comments or insight on this recent round of planting?

Also, what would be the best way to get some of the sports fields and other barren patches of land treed? I've been hiking frequently at Sunnybrook this summer and I find most of the sports fields are a complete waste of space. Few people use them, even in the evenings and on weekends. I think repurposing half the fields would leave more than enough space for the occasional Frisbee, soccer and cricket games, while providing much needed shade.
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Glad to hear about the recent round of planting; but that snuck under my radar.

I will have to go have a look and see what they planted and where.

Or maybe I'll just phone someone and ask for the plan!

I will have more to say later on that.

At over 1,500 plants, at typical densities of 1 per 4M2 (depending on which department did the design/planting).....that could be quite a good sized area. (1.5 acres)

*****

On the sports fields................hey, no one is a bigger fan of naturalizing our ravine lands that me..............but you can't judge their popularity this year; since the City isn't issuing any permits for team sports.

I expect the main field at the top of the hill is normally very well permitted.

But you can ask the Councillor's office or Parks for that info.

But you would need last year's data to make a case for wiping out a field for lack of interest.

I think the Sunnybrook field site is poor (apart from my preferences for nature); because its beyond car-centric, in the deepest, highest park of the park, when there is no access from that side. (I don't see them buying a home at the foot of The Bridal Path to create said access either), but I digress.

There's 4 soccer pitches and 3 cricket pitches; and one multi-purpose space.

I will say this, its about a 28ha/70 acre site, that would make for an amazing restoration project!

If the fields are under-used, in a normal year, I would definitely go through the Councillor to ask for more of a focus on nature.

While the forestry section would love to pursue such a thing, they will not pick a fight with Parks operations or sports leagues without political cover.

I don't know where they have forested in the area.............but if I were looking for a spot.........here's where I'd start:

1597272442236.png


That appears to have no conflict with the sports fields.

Also here:

1597272534334.png


I can't be sure there are no conflicts without looking at the site in person. But those look pretty easy to claim to me on cursory examination.
 
You're absolutely right - there are small patches outside the mulch trail that could easily be forested without impacting the sports fields. Other than that, some of the existing treed areas would benefit from denser planting.
 
Update from Forestry: it is planned to plant 170 large caliper trees in the manicured sections of the park. This planting will likely be delayed until 2021 because of COVID. They are also working in various locations around Sunnybrook Park to restore and convert sections with high invasive species cover to native cover.
 
kali said:
Also, what would be the best way to get some of the sports fields and other barren patches of land treed? I've been hiking frequently at Sunnybrook this summer and I find most of the sports fields are a complete waste of space. Few people use them, even in the evenings and on weekends. I think repurposing half the fields would leave more than enough space for the occasional Frisbee, soccer and cricket games, while providing much needed shade.
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While I don't disagree that more trees should be added to Sunnybrook, replacing existing sports fields with them is not a waste of space. With many (all?) youth and adult recreational leagues cancelled this year the fields have definitely been underused but under normal circumstances all those fields are heavily used. The city has a shortage of recreational facilities it's already challenging for leagues to find enough space.
 
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