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The province of Toronto?

I didn't say transit investment, I said investment in a city-specific project. For lack of a better way of assessing need, this should be doled out on a population basis.
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I don't think there is a lack of better ways of assessing needs. And just using a strict per capita basis isn't going to cut it most of the time.

Toronto has a higher per capita of social housing and assistance. Toronto has a higher incidence of traffic congestion, costing the Ontario economy billions in lost productivity. Keeping Toronto's "Golden Goose" status requires investment, and investing in Toronto pays higher dividends to the rest of the province.
 
^Look, Toronto might deserve some special treatment, but I would argue that recently it has received it.

Honestly, an $8.4B check to do whatever we want on transit is unprecedented, and there's not much more we can ask for - especially in a period of austerity. If we can't do better than what we have with that kind of money, it's our fault, not the province's.

We aren't in the Mike Harris dark ages anymore. Crying poor and asking for more is whiny and entitled. We don't want to become the Quebeckers of Ontario, complete with threats of separation.
 
Would Toronto actually be better off?

As someone pointed out earlier, a Province of Toronto would be, very much, a "have" province.....the other new province of "ROO {rest of Ontario} would be, very much, a have not province......income/wealth in this country has to be distributed and through federal transfer payments it is very likely that a fair size portion of PoT's wealth would be re-distributed and a fair amount of that redistribution would be back to ROO....then you add in the additional cost of a new level of government/administration.....probably just a wash....I'm guessing.
 
TOareaFan said:
Would Toronto actually be better off?

As someone pointed out earlier, a Province of Toronto would be, very much, a "have" province.....the other new province of "ROO {rest of Ontario} would be, very much, a have not province
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I am not so sure about this staying that way. The unemployment rate is already higher in Toronto than the ROO. Toronto is a very small geographic area and large swings in migration of people is possible. I am not sure, but I think you pay taxes based on your Province of residence, not where you earned the money. The Province of Toronto (POT) may have difficulties if people flee to the lower taxe rates of ROO, but continue to work in POT
 
BurlOak said:
I am not so sure about this staying that way. The unemployment rate is already higher in Toronto than the ROO. Toronto is a very small geographic area and large swings in migration of people is possible. I am not sure, but I think you pay taxes based on your Province of residence, not where you earned the money. The Province of Toronto (POT) may have difficulties if people flee to the lower taxe rates of ROO, but continue to work in POT
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what makes you think ROO can afford lower rate rates in the first place?
Toronto as a province may charge out-of-province fees for services as well, such as if you attend University of Toronto.
 
The reverse is true too... there are many universities outside of Toronto.

Toronto doesn't exist in a vacuum. Many people who live in Toronto once lived in other parts of the province, have family and friends there, go there often... or work outside of the city too. Any fees that Toronto could or would conceivably levy against ROO could be reversed as well.

Again, who is really winning in any of this?
 
Toronto as a province may charge out-of-province fees for services as well, such as if you attend University of Toronto
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Would you also place a moat with a drawbridge around TO? Tolls on that drawbridge would be a dandy club to beat those ROO people with, we'll show those bastards.
 
While (IMO) the whole discussion of a "province of Toronto" is a bit silly..it would be interesting to see (if you took the silliness to the max and allowed neighbouring municipalities to pick their province) where Cities like Mississauga, Vaughan, Brampton, Pickering, etc. opted to go.

My bet would be ROO....they would get all the benefits of being near Toronto and the benefits of being more major players in the province they stayed in (Mississauga would be the second largest city in ROO, Brampton the 3rd, etc.).....and PoT would become the only province in Canada without a significant international airport (excluding Porter's minimal cross border routes).
 
TOareaFan said:
While (IMO) the whole discussion of a "province of Toronto" is a bit silly..it would be interesting to see (if you took the silliness to the max and allowed neighbouring municipalities to pick their province) where Cities like Mississauga, Vaughan, Brampton, Pickering, etc. opted to go.

My bet would be ROO....they would get all the benefits of being near Toronto and the benefits of being more major players in the province they stayed in (Mississauga would be the second largest city in ROO, Brampton the 3rd, etc.).....and PoT would become the only province in Canada without a significant international airport (excluding Porter's minimal cross border routes).
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Where they would go is stay in Ontario where their votes aren't drowned out by inner city issues. I don't think the idea of a Province of Toronto is silly and I don't think it would do any harm. The choice of a Province of Toronto is not an abandonment of the people of Ontario, by remaining in the country the 905 and 416 would be just as linked as they are today, less separated than Ottawa and Hull. The only difference is that decisions on how money is spent within the borders and how taxes are collected within the borders would be decided by the people within its borders.

Look at the reverse of separation... what if we got rid of the middle level of government altogether. No provinces, just one nation and municipal governments. Are people better served by such a government?

Personally I think we need to look at the benefits of each and better focus the 3 levels of government on services which should be delivered by those levels of government because typically that level of decision belongs there. National defence... there is no benefit to it being handled at a provincial or municipal level. Education, there is a benefit of it being handled at a municipal level, we are loosing school pools downtown because the way it was managed has changed, and the demand for French immersion is outstripping supply. Even now there are still local school boards so there is some understanding that decisions belong at the municipal level, but the boards have been castrated with no control over their own funding. Probably there needs to be a similar approach to transfer payments to provinces where there are transfer payments to municipalities so that a certain level of funding is guaranteed but local choice can override that default and choose to collect more to provide better service.

I don't think we should create a Province of Toronto, but Toronto does need to be in control of its own destiny, just as every other municipality should be. The province shouldn't decide if a casino goes in Windsor, Windsor should decide if a casino goes in Windsor. I think there is a better way to set things up so that the relationship between municipalities and provinces is more similar to how the relationship between provinces and the federal government are.
 
I think if there is one region in Canada should become a new province, it is the city of Montreal and the greater area.
The benefit for this city from doing it will be almost like the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 
PUTOTO said:
I think if there is one region in Canada should become a new province, it is the city of Montreal and the greater area.
The benefit for this city from doing it will be almost like the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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Bad idea. That would likely lead to the separation of Quebec from the Dominion.
 
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