AHK
Senior Member
Both architecturally and with respect to the timeline.
Toronto The Milan Condominium | ?m | 37s | Conservatory Group | Richmond Architects COMPLETE
Both architecturally and with respect to the timeline.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
How many square meters/feet constitutes a 'significant portion?' What if that portion is small in size but 'important' to the design intent of the building? Is this limited to cladding type or does it include changes colour, shape, texture, depth, etc.? Law is far more precise than what you've presented. One would have to quantify exactly how much of the building has 'changed,' then qualify how that change has negatively impacted the purchaser. Simply claiming that they 'changed the cladding' is going to get you about as far as the 365 Church opposition at an OMB hearing (lack of evidence zinger!).
The number of elevators in a building is determined by an elevator consultant who calculates variables like the square footage and the number of suites per floor. This generally does not change.
Again, the size of the floor plate is one of the first things worked out in conceptual design. This is long finalized by the time a building goes to market.
Amenity space is determined by the total square footage and the number of suites. It is a fixed number.
Again, like the cladding situation, one would have the quantify what was changed, then qualify how that change as affected you.
But as you can see, your 'contract' is riddled with holes and inconsistencies and could therefore never be binding. As Mike wisely laid out on the previous page, renders are simply visual representations of what a building will look like at a particular moment in time. Buildings change quite literally hundreds of times from when they leave conceptual design and move to building permit, tender and finally working / shop drawings.
Uncle Teddy
Senior Member
Its okay. Garbage is a tad harsh.
LowPolygon
Senior Member
"its okay"
lets make that the municipal slogan! Toronto: Its Okay!
actually according to the developer, "Milan" is more than just ok.
got it?
"It’s a glass sculpture that transcends the ordinary! With Seductive, timeless design!" "Where innovation, passion, and sophistication converge, a world-ranking residence rises"! "A space of promise. A place of exhilaration. Milan is where the now and the next are invented"!
And that lobby? Well, “all that is great about the city of Milan is also all that is great about the lobby at Milan – the epitome of elegance and style.â€!
And the “Soaring ceilings provide a breathtaking sense of space, while floor-to-ceiling windows frame the verdant natural surroundingsâ€!
Ok, well it’s four feet from the driveway into the Canadian Tire gas station and it backs onto a parking lot but still, you know where they are coming from with the 'verdant surroundings' right? And there aren’t any floor to ceiling windows, but um, I feel their presence! They’re like a phantom limb or something…
Wrenkin
Active Member
Law is as precise as people draft it, and as precise as judges interpret it. If I were drafting a contract I would make sure to be as clear as possible but statutes are commonly written in general language so as to adapt to changing circumstances.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
lets look at this again.
"the purchaser has the right to back out of the contract if the completed structure varies significantly from the version presented at the time of purchase. This may be voided if the changes are presented to the purchaser during the design process, and allow the purchaser to decide whether or not to back out of the purchase.
A significant variance can be regarded as:
1. Change is cladding type for a large portion (above 2% of the buildings total facade), or visually important portion of the facade, which is defined as a signifcant architectural feature such as a roof element, or any feature that interacts with streetlevel.
2. Change in amount of elevators (rarely happens, but it should be included regardless, as it drastically effects how one gains access to their home)
3. change in floorplates. (this does happen, see pinnacle on the adelaide)
4. change in amenities. This can be defined as a lower amount of equipment than initially promised, a different design of the outdoor or indoor space, or any change of any kind that plays a significant role in the experience of the amenity space. (I was not speaking strictly about square footage here, I was speaking about some amazing amenity space being presented to the purchasers only to have a small kitchen and a couple of treadmills on opening day)
5. change in interior condo finishings. this can be defined as a change in any material or appliance in the condo that the owner has not consented to. For example, if the owner was initially promised a huge double oven, the builder can not switch it to a single oven to save on costs without the purchasers permission."
may I remind you that in the court of law a law must not hold up to every word, and many parameters of laws are to be determined by the judge and jury. A significant change in cladding quality does not need to be defined in the most exact form, as it is considered the responsibility of the judge to determine whether the case at hand is deemed significant. In the case of Milan, the cladding of the entire building is different from what was presented at the time of sale, and would be in clear violation.
"the purchaser has the right to back out of the contract if the completed structure varies significantly from the version presented at the time of purchase. This may be voided if the changes are presented to the purchaser during the design process, and allow the purchaser to decide whether or not to back out of the purchase.
A significant variance can be regarded as:
1. Change is cladding type for a large portion (above 2% of the buildings total facade), or visually important portion of the facade, which is defined as a signifcant architectural feature such as a roof element, or any feature that interacts with streetlevel.
2. Change in amount of elevators (rarely happens, but it should be included regardless, as it drastically effects how one gains access to their home)
3. change in floorplates. (this does happen, see pinnacle on the adelaide)
4. change in amenities. This can be defined as a lower amount of equipment than initially promised, a different design of the outdoor or indoor space, or any change of any kind that plays a significant role in the experience of the amenity space. (I was not speaking strictly about square footage here, I was speaking about some amazing amenity space being presented to the purchasers only to have a small kitchen and a couple of treadmills on opening day)
5. change in interior condo finishings. this can be defined as a change in any material or appliance in the condo that the owner has not consented to. For example, if the owner was initially promised a huge double oven, the builder can not switch it to a single oven to save on costs without the purchasers permission."
may I remind you that in the court of law a law must not hold up to every word, and many parameters of laws are to be determined by the judge and jury. A significant change in cladding quality does not need to be defined in the most exact form, as it is considered the responsibility of the judge to determine whether the case at hand is deemed significant. In the case of Milan, the cladding of the entire building is different from what was presented at the time of sale, and would be in clear violation.
kalvinone
Active Member
I want to shout: "Quick everyone! Bail out now!"
With all this talk - is there a guideline available for all the types of conditions? ie. Tarion? or would it be in their contracts?
SP!RE
°°°°°°
That picture depresses me. Almost-black mullions paired with a brownish-grey spandrel. Who thought that would be a good idea? And the red accents just do not help, given the colour scheme.
urbandreamer
recession proof
You are surprised? It's Toronto--marketing departments don't understand colour.
DarkSideDenizen
Senior Member
Remember 8 Park Road? BSN? This will also be forgotten in time amongst the myriad projects around the city. Decent filler for the neighbourhood. Still, in a housing sense, it seems over-priced considering what you get.
LowPolygon
Senior Member
i don't get the use of this word 'filler'. how does that make it acceptable? pink slime is also 'filler'.
urbandreamer
recession proof
5 June 2013: Filling holes in my skyline villa:
DarkSideDenizen
Senior Member
It doesn't, but it's what we're getting nevertheless. In the overall context of the city skyline our eyes are drawn to the most striking buildings (usually the tallest or largest, most boldly coloured or oddly shaped). The rest becomes background, as the brightest stars in the night sky draw our gaze away from the many other visible stars.
alklay
Senior Member
Let's admit it folks: this building is the equivalent of pink slime.
fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
5 June 2013: Filling holes in my skyline villa:
If only:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Barney_Miller.jpg
