The Great PC/Mac Debate (Embarrassing Revelations for Windows Vista)

[afransen]

Hmmmm, I think that a computer for every student - is pretty much a necessity these days.....

The area I would like to see the University "save" money for students is to actively encourage the development and use of "open source" text books that are distributed in eReader/PDF format.

Any course material developed with the financial support of the endowment fund I mentioned earlier was required to made available free-of-charge in electronic form (typically course notes, which in the Waterloo vernacular are what I'd describe as not-quite textbooks). Not quite open source, but close (professor retains IP rights). I agree though, we encourage the development of these materials, as they generally cost $10-$30 rather than $100-$200 which is typical of a textbook. Also, in many advanced fields, there are no suitable textbooks. Good luck getting a good textbook for some pure math subjects that you don't need a PhD to understand.

syn/digi:

Yes, it is ridiculous, but the administration thinks it's true. I'm not sure I disagree.

Macs don't guarantee a good lab, but since prospective students only <i>see</i> the lab, rather than use it, they do give a leg up. I was at Laval this spring, and I saw a rather impressive lab in their Biz Admin building. The public lab left something to be desired, however.

And anything that will favourably impress on prospective students increases the likelihood that a school will be ranked higher. Quality of facilities certainly factors into that. And when more students rank a school higher, it tends to allow the school to be more selective.

I should also mention that the first lab replaced was previously older gen (CRT era) IMacs. Those were awful machines, but thankfully they were primarily used for non-major courses.

I will also say that I have given tours of the facilities to prospective students, and more often than not, some of them (or their parents) would notice the Macs and go "Oooh". Sad. I had to bite my tongue more than once.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I should also mention that the first lab replaced was previously older gen (CRT era) IMacs. Those were awful machines, but thankfully they were primarily used for non-major courses.

I will also say that I have given tours of the facilities to prospective students, and more often than not, some of them (or their parents) would notice the Macs and go "Oooh". Sad. I had to bite my tongue more than once.

Was that on the 2nd floor of MC across from the Math C&D? I remember friends of mine had a course there on those macs called CS 101 which was to teach them introductory spreadsheet and word processing skills. This is funny because one of the clear and unarguable advantages of a PC over a Mac is that you can use shortcut keys in Excel and Word.

 

[afransen]

Yes.

One of my experiences using the Macs was word processing. An exercise in frustration, that. Is there a reason why keyboard shortcuts aren't supported?

 

[MetroMan]

one of the clear and unarguable advantages of a PC over a Mac is that you can use shortcut keys in Excel and Word.

That is quite a statement. It demonstrates your absolute ignorance to anything outside the Windows world.

One of my experiences using the Macs was word processing. An exercise in frustration, that. Is there a reason why keyboard shortcuts aren't supported?

They are supported.

Some common ones:

As you can see, they're pretty similar to what you'd see in a Windows environment.... which is no coincidence.

In fact, you can thank Apple computer for introducing Cut/Copy+Paste and their associated X (cut), C (copy), V (paste) in the Apple Lisa. Z for undo was also introduced at that time.

 

[syn]

Any course material developed with the financial support of the endowment fund I mentioned earlier was required to made available free-of-charge in electronic form (typically course notes, which in the Waterloo vernacular are what I'd describe as not-quite textbooks). Not quite open source, but close (professor retains IP rights). I agree though, we encourage the development of these materials, as they generally cost $10-$30 rather than $100-$200 which is typical of a textbook. Also, in many advanced fields, there are no suitable textbooks. Good luck getting a good textbook for some pure math subjects that you don't need a PhD to understand.

syn/digi:

Yes, it is ridiculous, but the administration thinks it's true. I'm not sure I disagree.

Macs don't guarantee a good lab, but since prospective students only <i>see</i> the lab, rather than use it, they do give a leg up. I was at Laval this spring, and I saw a rather impressive lab in their Biz Admin building. The public lab left something to be desired, however.

And anything that will favourably impress on prospective students increases the likelihood that a school will be ranked higher. Quality of facilities certainly factors into that. And when more students rank a school higher, it tends to allow the school to be more selective.

I should also mention that the first lab replaced was previously older gen (CRT era) IMacs. Those were awful machines, but thankfully they were primarily used for non-major courses.

I will also say that I have given tours of the facilities to prospective students, and more often than not, some of them (or their parents) would notice the Macs and go "Oooh". Sad. I had to bite my tongue more than once.

The quality of labs do make an impression - but are they a deciding factor? I find that hard to believe. As far as I know, school rankings are generally based on student feedback, not what prospective touring students think.

In any case, you can put together a nice looking PC lab too, and for much cheaper. I guess the current state of "mac-ophilia" does have something to do with it.

 

[afransen]

Metro: Well, for whatever reason, those keyboard shortcuts weren't working. I was using open office (whatever they call it on the Mac platform).

 

[MetroMan]

Were you attempting to use them like you do on your Windows machine? To be clear, you don't use CTRL. The original implementation of C, X, V, Z is by using a modifier key appropriately called "Command". The character looks like this: ⌘

When Microsoft adopted Apple's shortcuts into its own OS in Windows 3.1, they chose to use CTRL instead.

I personally find it odd to use your pinky or two hands to perform a shortcut in Windows. The position of the ⌘ character was designed so you can use your thumb to press it and your index finger to press the letter corresponding to the shortcut you want. A Windows equivalent would be like pressing the Windows key + your letter. Try it. Feels much more intuitive and requires less finger gymnastics.

 

[syn]

Were you attempting to use them like you do on your Windows machine? To be clear, you don't use CTRL. The original implementation of C, X, V, Z is by using a modifier key appropriately called "Command". The character looks like this: ⌘

When Microsoft adopted Apple's shortcuts into its own OS in Windows 3.1, they chose to use CTRL instead.

I personally find it odd to use your pinky or two hands to perform a shortcut in Windows. The position of the ⌘ character was designed so you can use your thumb to press it and your index finger to press the letter corresponding to the shortcut you want. A Windows equivalent would be like pressing the Windows key + your letter. Try it. Feels much more intuitive and requires less finger gymnastics.

Anyone who uses a keyboard properly will use two hands. I've found a pinky the finger of choice for Mac or PC - on a Mac it's right below the Z (where the Alt button is in Windows), so it just feels natural to use the pinky. On a PC you're just under the shift (which is also pressed by the pinky). I haven't really noticed any particular benefit either way.

 

[MetroMan]

^^ While typing you would use two hands. That's not at discussion.

When using a trackpad or mouse with your right hand, the original method (left hand performs the shortcuts) doesn't require that you let go of your mouse or trackpad to actuate a shortcut.

 

[syn]

^^ While typing you would use two hands. That's not at discussion.

When using a trackpad or mouse with your right hand, the original method (left hand performs the shortcuts) doesn't require that you let go of your mouse or trackpad to actuate a shortcut.

If I'm using a mouse I don't use the keyboard at all - I just right click.

 

[w.ll.am]

Open office doesn't use the same keyboards shortcuts as office for some reason... you need to remap them.

 

[MetroMan]

If I'm using a mouse I don't use the keyboard at all - I just right click.

I guess it's a matter of preference and that cannot be debated.

I find it useful to cut, copy, paste in one step, rather than context click and then select the relevant menu. I also make use of ⌘T for opening a tab (instead of dragging my cursor to a new tab button), ⌘W to close a tab or window and ⌘Q to close an application.

Further, I make extensive use of multi touch gestures to scroll (two finger drag), to zoom out Exposé (view of all open windows) and changing Spaces (multiple desktops).

It all results in a very efficient and quick navigating productivity experience.

 

[syn]

I guess it's a matter of preference and that cannot be debated.

I find it useful to cut, copy, paste in one step, rather than context click and then select the relevant menu. I also make use of ⌘T for opening a tab (instead of dragging my cursor to a new tab button), ⌘W to close a tab or window and ⌘Q to close an application.

Further, I make extensive use of multi touch gestures to scroll (two finger drag), to zoom out Exposé (view of all open windows) and changing Spaces (multiple desktops).

It all results in a very efficient and quick navigating productivity experience.

Well, you can do the same thing on a PC. It just uses a different button, which may or may not be as convenient depending on your preferences.

If I'm just using the mouse then I don't have to even worry about using another hand. I can just right click and it's all done in pretty much the same time.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Well, you can do the same thing on a PC. It just uses a different button, which may or may not be as convenient depending on your preferences.

If I'm just using the mouse then I don't have to even worry about using another hand. I can just right click and it's all done in pretty much the same time.

Except my wireless Apple mouse that I got with MacPro has 5 buttons. Currently use 3 of them. Haven't yet got to use to side buttons.

Still use my keyboard shortcuts more than the mouse anyways.

(I use the Windows side of my MacPro for some PC games. Otherwise, it stays on the Mac side with the word processor, graphics, accounting programs, internet browser, etc.)

 

[digi]

It demonstrates your absolute ignorance to anything outside the Windows world.

Hey angry mac guy, why don't you take your own advice:

I guess it's a matter of preference and that cannot be debated.