The Future of City-Owned Golf Courses in Toronto

[Northern Light]

- for instance no suggested trail connections were even imagined for any of the courses.....

The potential/likely trail alignment for the Don Valley Course is pretty well known.

The issue is that it requires somewhat shrinking/reorganizing the course, and that triggers a capital budget request.

It's clear that the recommendations were scoped to deal w/the capital allocation that would be made available.

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I'm not sure if a trail alignment at Tam O'Shanter has been given a serious once over or not.

 

[Northern Light]

One comment in the report was that Scarlet and Humber Heights have some provision for public (walker/cyclist) safety that the others don't yet have in place - can anyone offer more detail?

I've walked these trails and find that statement amusing. About as credible as Tam O'Shanter being nearby Dentonia (12km away).... LOL

The Bike Trail at Scarlett and at Humber Valley is not disconnected/interrupted.

Much is on the opposite side of the river from the golfing operations.

There is a small section at Humber where that is not true............

This is the precaution I remember: LOL (Streetview)

 

[ShonTron]

Removed a few off-topic posts. How did this thread become a place to rant about cyclists and bike lanes?

Further trolling will result in us putting members on vacation.

 

[Mr Finish Line]

There's a (albeit crappy) paved trail immediately south of Tam O'Shanter. I don't know what they're talking about with "exploring the feasibility of installing multi-use paths/trails on site". You can't have people going out for a Sunday stroll with golf balls flying overhead. The city should improve the existing trail that's already there, and the whole trail network in the area, which is in serious disrepair in places.

I don't mean to drag the thread off topic, but the report talks about trails a lot, so it's hard not to talk about adjacent trails.

 

[myself]

Now if only they had the ability to do something about Islington, Donalda and Rosedale blocking potential ravine multi-use paths...

 

[W. K. Lis]

There's a (albeit crappy) paved trail immediately south of Tam O'Shanter. I don't know what they're talking about with "exploring the feasibility of installing multi-use paths/trails on site". You can't have people going out for a Sunday stroll with golf balls flying overhead. The city should improve the existing trail that's already there, and the whole trail network in the area, which is in serious disrepair in places.

I don't mean to drag the thread off topic, but the report talks about trails a lot, so it's hard not to talk about adjacent trails.

Golf balls coming in at 1 o'clock...

From link.

 

[Northern Light]

There's a (albeit crappy) paved trail immediately south of Tam O'Shanter. I don't know what they're talking about with "exploring the feasibility of installing multi-use paths/trails on site". You can't have people going out for a Sunday stroll with golf balls flying overhead. The city should improve the existing trail that's already there, and the whole trail network in the area, which is in serious disrepair in places.

I don't mean to drag the thread off topic, but the report talks about trails a lot, so it's hard not to talk about adjacent trails.

Trails are possible on Course lands, it depends on how the holes are configured, I mean if you get a John Daly on the course and he cuts a bit slice, all bets are off, but in general shot trajectories are known and mapable and mitigable.

Safety precautions can also be implemented such as high-mast netting over short stretches.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves here........ there is no real intent to do anything near term at Tam, based on the report.

 

[Northern Light]

Now if only they had the ability to do something about Islington, Donalda and Rosedale blocking potential ravine multi-use paths...

I'm unaware of any plans for trails at Islington in the near term.

But Donalda is on the list; Rosedale they intend to around

From the Toronto Trails Strategy of the TRCA:

Edit to add, they do have a plan to go around Rosedale:

 

[myself]

I'm unaware of any plans for trails at Islington or Rosedale in the near term.

But Donalda is on the list.

From the Toronto Trails Strategy of the TRCA:

View attachment 373224

yea, just curious how much of that is wishful thinking from TRCA (even though its labelled as "high" importance) or if there has been actual dialog with Donalda and they're open to the idea/working with TRCA and the City.

 

[Northern Light]

yea, just curious how much of that is wishful thinking from TRCA (even though its labelled as "high" importance) or if there has been actual dialog with Donalda and they're open to the idea/working with TRCA and the City.

I don't know how much discussion has been had; though part of Donalda is on TRCA-owned land which does provide some modest leverage.

 

[myself]

I don't know how much discussion has been had; though part of Donalda is on TRCA-owned land which does provide some modest leverage.

Interesting, also I wonder if anything about the private clubs tax situation with the city comes into play. Although I don't know if that's been changed at all. (Though Donalda isn't listed as one of the beneficiaries)

Private golf clubs cost Toronto taxpayers millions

A decades-old agreement aimed at preserving green space in the city has Toronto taxpayers subsidizing private golf and country clubs.

www.thestar.com

Editorial | Toronto’s private golf courses should pay more property tax

Nine posh Toronto golf courses can’t expect to keep enjoying a tax break that has short-changed the city by about $37 million.

www.thestar.com

 

[Northern Light]

Interesting, also I wonder if anything about the private clubs tax situation with the city comes into play. Although I don't know if that's been changed at all. (Though Donalda isn't listed as one of the beneficiaries)

Private golf clubs cost Toronto taxpayers millions

A decades-old agreement aimed at preserving green space in the city has Toronto taxpayers subsidizing private golf and country clubs.

www.thestar.com

Editorial | Toronto’s private golf courses should pay more property tax

Nine posh Toronto golf courses can’t expect to keep enjoying a tax break that has short-changed the city by about $37 million.

www.thestar.com

I'm happy to take that discussion private; I think since this is a thread about City-owned courses we should keep it there. Especially since this is a subject that tends to rile some!

 

[drum118]

Will Toronto tee up changes to city-run golf courses, amid demands for green space?​

 

[Northern Light]

Will Toronto tee up changes to city-run golf courses, amid demands for green space?​

In the article, JPags manages to find a single, older woman who apparently is the pro-golf lobby group leader; and someone on the opposing side who wants the courses to be mostly farms/allotments.

Sigh. The former, I have some measure of sympathy for in terms of wanting to advocate for something she enjoys; but she comes off as too fierce w/o an understanding of what others need in the community; while the latter doesn't
seem to understand why you can't put food-growing at the floodplain level.

For the record on that one, its not so much that your veggies might end up under water...........its first and foremost, what's in that water (combine sewer overflow)..........

Second, there are some common food plants which can be non-native, invasive, that is an issue for a fragile environment.

I'm completely pro community gardens........

But advocates for all types of concerns annoy me when they don't listen to other parties, or get their facts straight.

Meanwhile, City staff, who for better or worse (depending on your position) clearly were out to defend golf; and offer up 1/2 of Dentonia as a sop to quiet the opposition, have done themselves few favours by having
an overly skewed process and a report that's light on facts and arguments and doesn't have much to say about trails elsewhere either.

You end up with people on every side angry.

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As I noted, while I would like to have seen more ambition on trails, some golf space trimmed back at at least one other course; I'm not completely unhappy with progress; assuming this passes.

 

[crs1026]

I'm a little skeptical of the grow-your-own-food argument applied to land that isn't suited for it.

If one were really concerned with availability of local food, and preserving farm land (I am, very much) one would do better to combat sprawl and loss of farmland for things like, say, Highway 413. Toronto is already pretty much fully built out - trying to squeeze in one more competing use for land is a challenge. If civic land can be utilized as food gardens, I'm all for it... but I don't expect to see that much of it in the city, there just isn't that much suitable land left. And when we have a competing agenda to maximize the tree canopy.....

Now, Metrolinx rights of way....

- Paul