Switzerland Minarets Laws

[Minato ku]

France is closer and closer to full veil ban but also closer and closer to regional election.
The full veil is very unpopular and not only among all the population including the majority of muslims (still the ban is less popular and poeple are more reserved about it) so the governement party thinks that they would gain vote by proposing this idea.
After the regional election, seeing the difficulty to create a law to ban it, expecially for only few thousand people they will abandon it.

In France we all know the reality of french politics, many talk, few acting.

Some european are maybe very happy with the minaret ban but fortunely many counrties have law that make it impossible.

 

[ssk]

Look here troll, this is about Europe and European values.

We do not want to be come muslim countries. If that makes me racist well sorry.
Most Europeans are quite happy with the minaret ban. Does that make us xenophobic? Maybe. I don't care. It's the voice of the people.
Look a page or two back, and you can find the strong support that European society has on banning minarets. This is not Canada, so stop imposing your liberal values no European values. It does not mean much to be Canadian, while European societies are much more established, rather than being some sort of melting pot. We are proud that we are not a melting pot/stew.

Look a page or two back at what I said -- Europe should worship Zeus and not some false desert god born to a virgin mother (riiiight...). What you said a page or two back is even more idiotic. Those are polls from tabloids, of course they're going to conform to idiot views. Also, what I find funny is that you keep on blabbering about European values (please define that btw), when the truth is that people from Old Europe view Serbians with suspicion and don't consider them as being the same. Your values are closer to those of Muslim Bosnians than to those of Christian French. Grow up!

I already addressed that crap about European societies being more established. It's idiotic and you should stop saying it. However, it'd be infinitely better if you just went away.

I called you a xenophobe because you say unfounded paranoid and xenophobic stuff like:
- Islamic brotherhood expansion lobbyists may have come up with this figure.
- Or someone whose wife is a muslim.
- ... often end up turning against their own kin.
- Sell outs are the most dangerous.

All this talk about "traitors" and people stabbing their own kin in the back for collaborating with the enemy sounds like the anti-Jewish propaganda of 20th century. It's getting a bit too much. Take this garbage to Stormfront where you can talk to your "own kin".

 

[urbandreamer]

What if early 20th century Canada had banned Eastern Orthodox onion domes from churches?

 

[ssk]

What if early 20th century Canada had banned Eastern Orthodox onion domes from churches?

No no no, you don't get it. See, we Canadians emerged suddenly out of nowhere. Being Canadian doesn't mean anything, and we have nothing in common. We eat and drink different things, we sleep at different times, we have different religions, we have different names, we don't look the same, and each and every one of us speaks a different language. You probably wouldn't even understand this text without your government-funded inter-Canadian translator because the two of us are so different! Because we have nothing in common with each other, and because we have no history nor past, somehow it is perfectly acceptable for us to be open and welcoming.

Europeans on the other hands have loads in common. They all eat and drink European food, they all sleep at the European mandated bed-time, they all go to the European church on Sunday (and celebrate European Christmas the same day), they all have European names, they all look so alike that it's hard to tell them apart, and each and every person speaks fluent European. See, Europe is established and has eleventy thousand years of history. If you send a letter via a time-travelling postal service to a current address in Europe but addressed eleventy thousand years back, it will reach the great(repeat eleventy thousand times)-grandfather of the European living there now, because European societies are so established. Because Europe oozes history, because those buildings and streetcars have always been there, because people haven't moved at all, because everything has been the same and perfect for the past eleventy thousand years, basically because they're so established, they absolutely cannot be open and welcoming. It makes so much sense! Jesus, what part of having history and being established don't you understand!?

 

[Filip]

What if early 20th century Canada had banned Eastern Orthodox onion domes from churches?

PS: Only Russians and Ukrainians use the onion dome. I thought I'd give you an architecture lesson anyway...

 

[ganjavih]

What exactly are European values? Europeans have exhibited the most brutality throughout human history... even just going back to the 20th century.

 

[gristle]

Look here troll, this is about Europe and European values.

We do not want to be come muslim countries. If that makes me racist well sorry.

European values? As ganjavih asked, what exactly are "European" values?

Given that minarets are allowed in other European countries, it should be clear that some sort of precise 'European" standards are not being expressed in this instance.

Minarets don't automatically make countries Muslim.

People who feel welcome in a society tend to be the most prone to assimilating. They may practice a different religion, but they will typically share a common culture with their neighbours.

 

[LAz]

Also, what I find funny is that you keep on blabbering about European values (please define that btw), when the truth is that people from Old Europe view Serbians with suspicion and don't consider them as being the same.

We are not the same. I do not consider the orthodox world as having european values.

Your values are closer to those of Muslim Bosnians than to those of Christian French.

Closer? Jee, our values have never been close to those of the Bosniaks. We have always been enemies ever since they sold out to Islam and terrorized what Christians remained.

I called you a xenophobe because you say unfounded paranoid and xenophobic stuff like:
- Islamic brotherhood expansion lobbyists may have come up with this figure.
- Or someone whose wife is a muslim.
- ... often end up turning against their own kin.
- Sell outs are the most dangerous.

The bottom three are related to the former yugoslavia. Lets keep that out of European discussions as I consider it part of the Orthodox world.
The first quote thing though is totally correct. I am not the only forumer who slammed that ridiculous statement that was overly sympathetic to muslims.

Europeans on the other hands have loads in common. They all...

I'll cut you off right there.
Let me reword your bigotry.

European countries for the most part are nation states. Go to poland you will see that indeed pretty much everyone is a pole. Oh damn, what a god damn motherfucker racist society, almost 100% polish! Rotten finns! Czechs! Good lord what will we do with these people?! [/sarcasm/mockery]

PS: Only Russians and Ukrainians use the onion dome. I thought I'd give you an architecture lesson anyway...

Uh jee, I am not too much into orthodox architecture, but my gut feeling is/was that most orthodox churches are not dome-ish...
...but isn't the biggest serbian church, the one in belgrade, hram sveti save, dome-like?

What exactly are European values?

Values change over time. When we say European values we should mainly look at Western European values, those of the catholic/protestant part. Currently there are various things in common such as ways that human rights are viewed, and many other things too. Marriage, family, entertainment, and so many other things...

Islam on the other hand is fundamentally opposed to many of these things, especially notions of human rights.

People who feel welcome in a society tend to be the most prone to assimilating.

Islam does not assimilate well. Period.
At any rate, Europe is not supposed to be a melting pot or soup or whatever you call it...





Don't get me wrong now. I really dislike many European values. I dislike them extremely. I am disgusted with them. I have not met one muslim that does not agree with me. They are good people deep down though. But, their culture is one of a completely different society and way of life.
When your religion requires you to learn Arabic then that is pretty fucked up to begin with from the start. For their religion that is great - their religion is strong. And that's the point, they will break us, just like they have in Sarajevo, where they turned the city into an islamic hot-spot.
I repeat, what kind of idiots ban santa and paint their streets green?!?! They do not want to see your christmas tree.

It does not seem like much of an issue now because their populations are not immense. But they grow and grow and grow and sure enough they get pissed of and will riot like they did in France that time. They want us to assimilate to them, not they to us.

 

[ssk]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Meaning, you can't say that you're only looking at Western Europe and then go back to Poland, Czech Republic and Finland to bolster your point. UK has a monarchy descended from Germans. The French president has Hungarian and Jewish ancestry. There are a lot of people of Hungarian and Czech ancestry in Germany, and a lot of people of Swedish ancestry in Finland.

You still haven't defined what European values are. Values vary from country to country. e.g. In Germany, it's only now becoming acceptable for women to work and raise children at the same time! This is same as in many Muslim societies, and is very different from urban parts of England and Scandinavia. Values on marriage, entertainment and other things also vary greatly. Some do civil unions, some marry, some don't. Some like football, some like floorball, or handball. Some like opera, some like industrial, and some like Bryan Adams and Celine Dion! French youth in banlieues burning cars is not a Muslim-only phenomenon. It's a weekly phenomenon in Berlin, and is done by white youth: http://www.brennende-autos.de/. All these things vary by class and region. Nationality has very little to do with it. Also I'm interested in hearing what European values you dislike, just to get an idea of what European values are.

Also, keep in mind that Muslims aren't magic people. I'm saying this because I sense this belief from people like you, so I'll repeat -- Muslims aren't magic people. Muslims don't always have complete knowledge of their own religion. Most just know what their parents taught them. Even if they know everything in Koran etc., Muslims don't have superhuman ability of adhering to their religion. Also, Muslim don't have an extrasensory communications system that they use to distribute memos on how to act as group, what countries to take over and how. Basically, Muslims are just as diverse in belief and practice as other people of other religions. The conflicts you see in Europe are due to differences in socioeconomic class. Most Muslims in America occupy a much higher socioeconomic class than Muslims in Europe and therefore those class conflicts don't exist here. It has very little to do with religion or America being a melting-pot vs. Europe being monocultural (which is bunk, but I'll accept for the sake of argument).

 

[urbandreamer]

Re: Filip:

PS: Only Russians and Ukrainians use the onion dome. I thought I'd give you an architecture lesson anyway...

Ever been to Saint George Serbian Orthodox Church in Waterloo? Here it is on google street view:

http://bit.ly/7wwCQw

Rather onion dome-like, eh?

 

[Filip]

That is the first Serbian church I have seen in my life with onion domes.. My theory is: must've been a Russian church that was converted by demand to a Serbian one.

Serbian Orthodox churches follow the Byzantine vernacular... That is big domes, no onions though.

St. Mark's

St. Sava's

Some, built in the early Kingdom of Serbia, which was heavily influenced by Austria, are built in a Baroque style:

But onion domes? Never seen one

 

[urbandreamer]

^Very funny Filip. I grew up near this church and watched its construction in the mid-eighties. It was built as the original Serbian Orthodox church for K-W. I've even been inside the place and know many who attend it.

 

[Filip]

This honestly doesn't make sense to me.. The SOC has a very strict rule on the design of their churches and every church being built in Serbia/Canada by them follows their rules.

I know many complaints from forumers in Belgrade because the new churches being built in centrally planned commieblock neighbourhoods look like they've been imported from 14th century Kosovo and look absolutely awkward beside the giant concrete towers. Also the new one built on Dixie Rd in Mississauga looks exactly like those ones. This is very odd indeed.

New church in Belgrade's suburubs:

Another one in the suburbs

And definitely the most context-awkward of them all: right in the middle of a new office park (u/c)

EDIT: This one says it all