Switzerland Minarets Laws

[cacruden]

Tell me, when was is the last time a police officer ticked you for saying that? There is no state religion in Canada. There is a religion where the majority participates, but NO religion is a part of our government. It's a handy thing called the separation of church/mosque/temple/synagog etc. and state.

If you want to say 'merry christmas', no one's going to stop you from doing it.

Separation of Church and state is an American concept - but even in the US it was not meant as a separation of god and state (pretty well all the colonists had the same god - but maybe a different religion than the United Kingdom - which Canada was a part). Even when we created a new constitution in 1982, god is still referenced (although softly).

 

[LAz]

It seems that Orthodox Serbs have an inability to think rationally. I don't want them in my country.

Don't worry. Our youth assimilates really fast and well. Model immigrants in my opinion. Heck, so many of the kids that I knew back when I was young do not even speak Serbian no more. It's such a shame, but, hey... while it may be our loss this is exactly what is good for Canada. So I don't oppose it.

Since ALL the mainstream religions originated in Asia, even Christianity comes from Asia, it can be said that all religions are foreign, from a Canadian perspective.

Well after a religion is in a place for a really really long time and has been accepted by pretty much all people, then it may in fact be the domestic home religion. Poland for example is what - almost entirely catholic christian...
...I think it's hard for you to imagine what this might look like, as you grew up in a multicultural place. European countries are often uni-cultural so they see this difference as a threat to their identity. What is difficult to understand here?

It's the silly Serbs that brought Islam to much of Europe in the first place. In 1914, Gavrilo Princip shoots Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, sparking the events leading to the First World War. The First World War leads to the Second World War, the end of which brings hundreds of thousands of Turkish Muslims into Europe as guest workers to rebuild after the war, who never leave once the building is completed. The First World War also brings the end to the Ottoman Empire, and the Second World War brings the (slow) end of the British and French Empires, all three result in Muslim populations in flux throughout the Middle East and North Africa, bringing millions more Muslims into Europe. Then we have Serbians in the 1980s and 90s attacking Bosnian and Albanian Muslims, forcing much of these two Muslim populations into Western Europe, including approximately 50,000 Bosnian/Albanian Muslims into Canada. So, Serbia wrecked the world order in 1914, and brought Islam to the west hundreds of years after Spain pushed it out.

Of course this is all tongue in cheek history, but , Serbs you right.

I'm starting to like you.
Do you also like cats?

But anyways, jokes aside...
... the french and german attraction of cheap labor from muslim countries could have been done like the russians are doing it now - come in, and LEAVE after six months or a year. Visa must be renewed or something like that. The problem is that they were allowed to settle for a long time. This particularily caused serious problems in their citizenship process. I believe that even today it's not all fixed, that there are still many muslims there without citizenship.


The Greeks are to blame for Islam in Europe. The Greek Byzantines kinda fucked up ya know. Well, the last byzantine empire was half serbs so perhaps we can take part of the blame. Did you not notice how bad the Serbs suffered for hundreds of years under the Turkish blade? We'd cut off our chidlren's fingers so that the turks do not steal our kids into the janissary army.
World War 1 was not about Serbia. Serbia was only a peice in the puzzle. Germany felt threatened and England+France did not want Germany expanding. Also, the traditional masonic fear is that Germany and Russia would be buddies - a really powerful combo. They did not want Germany to go to the middle east. The masonic powers replaced the serbian pro-German monarchy by a pro-masonic one. That's when the paranoia about greater serbia started to be concocted by the German side. We did not give them free access over us to the middle east... a big mistake for the Serbs but a good thing for the masonic forces of the West.
Back to the future... in the 1990s many people left yugoslavia. If anything, more serbs were dispalced in the 1990s than any other group. Canada in particular took many serbs... 80% of Serbia's engineers left... most going to Canada. Shit, in the early 1990s, like 92, 93, 94... there were like 20,000 er so comming to Toronto per year. 98% of the yugoslav migrants to Canada were Serbs. Croatians even complained about that fact. Albanians tended to go to Italy. Bosniaks went to the US and Germany more so. St Louis has a big muslim community, with tens of thousands.

 

[LAz]

So remember Sarajevo? A city in which the Orthodox Christians were a majority? Things changed later, but the combined Christian populations that outnumbered the Muslims.

Well, the islamified city is singing a new tune nowadays... these here are some changes from some years ago...


http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11275185.html

Because, you see, he's contrary to the spirit of Islam:

Thanks to a rather absurd, and so far unpopular, move by officials in the Bosnian capital, Sarajevo, Santa will not being coming down the chimneys of public schools this year. Though a strong tradition for the past half a century, a decision supported by the Islamic community and the nationalist Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) party has banned Santa from his usual pre-New Year's rounds to Bosnian nursery schools and kindergartens to hand out gifts to children. Arzija Mahmutovic, the director of the Children of Sarajevo public institution, which operates 24 public kindergartens in Sarajevo, has refused to organize Santa's traditional visit, arguing that it is not in the spirit of Islam. However, she added generously, that parents were free to organize a visit by Santa on their own and outside of public schools.

That is very generous of her. Especially since, as the Zippers point out, this is the same city that painted their sidewalks green in honor of Islam. And I'd follow this anti-Santa article with a joke about how puppies and kittens are next. Except Saudi Arabia actually banned puppies and kittens so that doesn't work.

This is a nice followup to the story of how Christmas trees were taken out of the libraries at UNC Chapel Hill because it was deemed inappropriate to "celebrate one particular set of customs." This is the same school that makes reading a book about the wisdom of the Koran mandatory for incoming freshman. Because why not.






Croatians went nuts after the muslims decided to push for more changes...
http://bosnianews.blogspot.com/2008/08/croatians-living-in-bosnia-go-crazy.html
CROATIANS LIVING IN BOSNIA "GO CRAZY" ABOUT GREEN SIDEWALKS IN SARAJEVO


And muslim outrage to christian religious buildings...
http://www.javno.com/en-world/outrage-at-serb-plan-for-church-in-sarajevo_148693
Outrage at Serb Plan for Church in Sarajevo



The Swiss probably saw Sarajevo, and pictured it as a laboratory of their future. Most europeans do not want such a fate to ruin their landscapes. So... they take these measures that the people support in order to prevent such things.

 

[LAz]

Back to topic. Sorry for these consecutive posts btw.

So, we saw in my first post in this topic that almost 50% of the french voters would vote. Safe to say that the referendum would pass in france. Now then, lets look south...


http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/many_italians_would_follow_swiss_on_minarets/

Many Italians Would Follow Swiss on Minarets
December 30, 2009

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - Many people in Italy would vote in favour of banning the construction of minarets in the country if a referendum on the matter took place, according to a poll by Ispo published in L’Osservatorio. 46 per cent of respondents would vote in favour of the minaret ban, while 37 per cent would vote against it.

Within the frame of Switzerland’s direct-democracy system, a group of citizens or leaders of the eight cantons together can call a referendum to challenge a law approved by the federal legislature. The vote is decided with a simple majority.

Last year, the ultra-nationalist Swiss People’s Party (SVP) gathered more than 113,000 signatures to force a nationwide referendum on banning the construction of minarets in Swiss mosques. The minaret—a tower from which the call to prayer is sounded—is a distinctive architectural feature of Islamic mosques. At this time, only the mosques in Geneva, Wangen near Olten, Winterthur and Zurich have minarets.

Last month, 57.5 per cent of Swiss voters cast a ballot in favour of banning the construction of minarets in Swiss mosques.

On Dec. 1, Roberto Calderoli, a member of Italy’s right-wing Northern League party (LN)—which is part of the governing centre-right coalition—called for a referendum inspired on the Swiss vote, declaring, "Respect for other religions is important, but we’ve got to put the brakes on Muslim propaganda."

Polling Data

Switzerland recently held a referendum on banning the construction of minarets. Some people have proposed holding a similar referendum in Italy. If a referendum took place, how would you vote?

In favour of a ban 46%

Against a ban 37%

Would not vote 12%

Not sure 5%

edit: added from another source, quote-When asked about building a minaret or mosque in their neighborhood opposition rises to almost 70%.-unquote


edit:
in UK the momentum is increasing... in Britain support was 44%. We all know that these polls understate the true percent, as seen in Switzerland.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=113702&sectionid=351020601
In UK, anti-Islam protesters call for minaret ban


http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/2009.12.21_Minarets.pdf
Perceptions on the Ban
Respondents in the three countries were presented with the arguments that both sides used during last
month’s Swiss referendum. More than two-in-five Britons (44%) sided with the proponents of the ban,
while less than three-in-ten (32%) agreed with the opponents of the ban.
In Canada, the group that sided with the proponents (37%) was slightly larger than the one that agreed
with the opponents (32%).
In the United States, respondents were virtually even (30% sided with the proponents of the ban; 29%
agreed with the opponents).




edit: Ever heard of Londonistan???

http://www.thelondondailynews.com/londoners-support-calls-minarets-capital-p-3609.html

Londoners support calls to ban minarets in capital
The London Daily News
December 02 2009

Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:36:23 PM by knighthawk

75% support for the ban on minarets in London Daily News poll

Londoners support the Swiss government’s decision to ban minarets and mosques according to a new poll in The London Daily News, further highlighting the "sensitivities" and concerns in the capital at the growing influence of Islam.

Callers to London's leading early morning radio show, the Nick Ferrari programme on LBC, also expressed their concerns with one caller citing how "out of character" a minaret would be if built in London.

London is the home to one of the largest number of mosques in the western world,apart from Turkey, with estimates putting the number at over one hundred. The "minaret" issue has become ever more controversial with the growth of Islamic extremism in the capital, and calls by a minority for Sharia law to be observed by all.

Harrow Council recently approved the building of the largest mosque in the capital, which will see Harrow Central Mosque serving Muslim worshippers from across north London when it is built on Station Road. Construction News in a report said:

"The designs include a 40m-high minaret, a gym, a crèche and a café within the 5,745 square metre developments. It is expected to open next year after Harrow Council approved changes to the original plans, which were passed in June 2000."

Increasingly London Muslims are demanding mosques to be built with traditional minarets, which reflect the liberal regime in place in the capital city. There are an estimated 1 million Muslims in London.


edit:
http://politiken.dk/politik/article852706.ece
A Megafon poll shows 51 percent support for the ban, while only 34 percent would allow the minarets.

Thus, there is massive public opposition to the concrete construction plans, projected in Copenhagen and Roskilde.

The poll will be greeted with satisfaction among Danish People's Party, which will shortly submit a proposal in parliament to hold a referendum.

http://translate.google.com/

 

[urbanboom]

Separation of Church and state is an American concept - but even in the US it was not meant as a separation of god and state (pretty well all the colonists had the same god - but maybe a different religion than the United Kingdom - which Canada was a part). Even when we created a new constitution in 1982, god is still referenced (although softly).

It's also a Christian concept: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:20-22&version=KJV

It might be the only thing which we all can agree. Merry Christmas, Prometheus!

 

[urbanboom]

The Swiss probably saw Sarajevo, and pictured it as a laboratory of their future. Most europeans do not want such a fate to ruin their landscapes. So... they take these measures that the people support in order to prevent such things.

Because they banned Santa, we ban minarets? You do this, so I do that, even before you've don it. Oh God, where will this end?

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

- Mahatma Gandhi

 

[LAz]

Muy bueno amigo.


Germany, France(again), Spain

Swiss Minaret Ban Popular in Europe
On the heels of the vote in Switzerland, polls in other European countries showed even stronger popular opposition to minarets as symbols of “foreign†cultural encroachment. In France, 73 percent of those polled in France by Le Figaro newspaper expressed opposition to seeing more minarets in the country. An even higher figure, 86 percent, was resulted from a similar poll published by L’Express. In Germany, Die Welt, a center-right newspaper, found 86 percent opposition when people were asked about the prospect of new minarets. In Spain, El Mundo found that 80 percent of its sampling supported the Swiss rejection.
http://www.europeaninstitute.org/De...versial-measure-points-to-deeper-malaise.html








Now then, lets see, the cyclists and red-heads...

 

[ssk]

Europe should be pagan as Zeus always intended. F'in Romans importing desert religions!

 

[Admiral Beez]

DWorld War 1 was not about Serbia. Serbia was only a peice in the puzzle.

But a Serbian assassin was the spark that started the fire. We could argue that that a building (or Europe, 1914) filled with wood and other combustible material will eventually go up in flames regardless, but without that Serbian spark, the road that led to the history I mention above may have been very different.

 

[GenerationW]

But a Serbian assassin was the spark that started the fire. We could argue that that a building (or Europe, 1914) filled with wood and other combustible material will eventually go up in flames regardless, but without that Serbian spark, the road that led to the history I mention above may have been very different.

Security being far less sophisticated then than it is today, prominent people were assassinated far more often in that era. The spark wasn't Gavrilo Princep's act, but the childish reaction to it by Austria-Hungary -- demanding ridiculous concessions from Serbia. And when the Serbian government & army proved they were no one's whipping boy, A-H cried to Germany and the war escalated.

Served the inbred Hapsburgs right that the war resulted in their demise.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Served the inbred Hapsburgs right that the war resulted in their demise.

On the contrary, the Hapsburgs have not met their demise, and today the family includes the current Grand Duke of Tuscany, and the Archduke of Austria-Este. Even Otto von Habsburg, now 97, continues a good life in Europe. Sure, their empire and monarchy is no longer, but that's the empire's/monarchy's demise, not the family's.

 

[GenerationW]

I wonder if they are all really secure in the knowledge that little Serbia's defiance led to the end of their empire. Or would some of them rather have gone the way of the Romanovs at the hands of the Bolsheviks?

 

[LAz]

Austrohungary was pretty weak back then, and its power was falling rapidly. Hey, it was significant... but still, it was on the decline. In fact, they couldn't even beat the Russian army.



The ultimatum was to give up sovreignty. No country would accept such thing. Serbia rejected two points of the many points in the ultimatum.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, people inside austrohungary wanted franz to be killed. There was no other way for the germans to take over serbia. I am on the german's side actually... I do not like that stupid serbian masonic monarchy.

 

[Cooool]

I've always wondered, do the theories about Muslims populating Europe that people like Mark Steyn propose have any validity? Or is it just scare tactics from those with xenophobic attitudes?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I've always wondered, do the theories about Muslims populating Europe that people like Mark Steyn propose have any validity?

Steyn's theory is based on simple demography. The Muslims are having far more children than the White Europeans. Even in countries with great nanny-state programs like Sweden, the birth rate is quite low, except amongst the Muslim populations. Whoever has the kids rules the future.