Switzerland Minarets Laws

[urbanboom]

^ Seems to me like Europe must either live with kids with foreign heritage, or with no kids at all, a choice Canada has had to make.

... Or they could be like Japan and not let in anyone... but that a ticking time bomb. The demographics in Japan are very bizzare and I fear that that country may implode.

 

[GenerationW]

Steyn's theory is based on simple demography. The Muslims are having far more children than the White Europeans. Even in countries with great nanny-state programs like Sweden, the birth rate is quite low, except amongst the Muslim populations. Whoever has the kids rules the future.

And in the U.S., fundamentalist Christians are the ones having lots of kids.

 

[Cooool]

I've heard the figures about the growth of muslims in comparison to everyone else are grossly exaggerated.

Not only that, but does the muslim birth rate stay the same once they've emmigrated? Having children requires money and that's probably something they would realize.

 

[Tewder]

How do they ban alcohol and still manage to have so many kids

 

[adeel]

How do they ban alcohol and still manage to have so many kids

Its the only fun thing we can/allowed/encouraged to do!

 

[LAz]

Seems to me like Europe must either live with kids with foreign heritage, or with no kids at all, a choice Canada has had to make.

Europe does have kids. Just perhaps not as many as would be desired.
Russia is starting to get out of its population decline. These declines, in my opinion, can be changed in a not so long amount of time.

I've heard the figures about the growth of muslims in comparison to everyone else are grossly exaggerated.

They are not exaggerated.
You do not believe the census, or what?

Not only that, but does the muslim birth rate stay the same once they've emmigrated? Having children requires money and that's probably something they would realize.

Europe has a generous welfare system... if one taps into it they're set. Heck, a woman would make zero money in say Oman. On the other handin Europe they pay people to have kids... ho yeah, this woman would be making big money, far more than she ever dreamed of in Oman. Same for the guy. He might be working a few jobs here and there, making far more than he ever dreamed of. In the meantime their homeland's population is booming so much that it is putting pressure on even more of their kin to come over.

Next step: we wants mosques!
We do not want to see christmas trees in public!
We want our religious holidays to be YOUR, er since we are the majority now, OUR national holidays.

How do they ban alcohol and still manage to have so many kids

The woman does not have much rights. The male dominates.

Much of the world despizes woman rights.
Quite frankly I think it's wrong to go to those countries and tell them they should let their women vote or they should do this or that... they are that way, so let them be that way... but keep them out of our place because we have our own ways which are different from their ways, which ways we do not want to become our ways. ways.

 

[kEiThZ]

I've heard the figures about the growth of muslims in comparison to everyone else are grossly exaggerated.

Not only that, but does the muslim birth rate stay the same once they've emmigrated? Having children requires money and that's probably something they would realize.

I don't have stats but most Muslim families I know tend to be larger than average (I think Steyn's got some in his book). And the more religious they are the larger the families tend to be. This happens with conservative Christians and orthodox jews as well.

I think what's disturbing to Europe is not the threat to their religious heritage but the threat posed to their cultural framework and most particularly to their hard fought for heritage of secularism. It's probably most discomforting that it's the most religious who tend to have larger families. And by are large Muslims tend to be more religious than the rest.

Also, as much as Western Europeans tend to view Muslims negatively, I don't think their discomfort is distributed evenly with all Muslim groups. Ethnic European muslims (Turks, Albanians, Bosnian, etc.) are far more likely to be better integrated than immigrants from South Asia or the Middle East who tend to be much more conservative (particularly on gender issues for example).

 

[Cooool]

Slightly more than 4 percent of Europe's population is Muslim, as defined by demographers (though about 80 per cent of these people are not religiously observant, so they are better defined as secular citizens who have escaped religious nations). It is possible, though not certain, that this number could rise to 6 percent by 2020. If current immigration and birth rates remain the same, it could even rise to 10 percent within 100 years. But it won't, because Muslims don't actually have more babies than other populations do under the same circumstances. The declining population growth rates are not confined to native populations. In fact, immigrants from Muslim countries are experiencing a faster drop in reproduction rates than the larger European population

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/article711186.ece

 

[Admiral Beez]

And in the U.S., fundamentalist Christians are the ones having lots of kids.

It's the same in Israel. Orthodox Jews have far more kids than secular Jews, and thus their more aggressive stance of Zionism and Israeli expansion will continue its growing control over Israeli domestic and foreign policy.

 

[urbandreamer]

^It's the same in Toronto, Canada. Orthodox Jewish families often have 10+ kids. That's why they are knocking down nice pre-war homes in the Bathurst-Lawrence riding and replacing them with tacky mcmansions. Or the ultra-orthodox that live, for example, in those lowrise apartments along Lawrence and Bathurst areas--two adults with 5 children sharing one or two bedroom apartments.... In Toronto, I can't actually think of any other group that has so many children.

 

[kEiThZ]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/article711186.ece

I'd love to read more. I'd love to know how the author reached the conclusion that 80% of Europe's Muslims were non-religious. That's seems to be a rather astonishing figure that he never backed up.

Also, if he suggests that it'll take 2 generations for Muslim fertility rates to decline to host country levels, than the proportion of Europe's Muslim population is likely to grow (though I do agree that Steyn's predictions are ridiculous) and bring with that growth more of the inter-cultural problems that we see today.

 

[LAz]

I might be wrong, but I think that some countries like Poland and Finland do not have these issues because they are for the most part monoethnic. Not completely, but for the most part. Similarily places like oh say Iceland do not have the issue either. So, it is not fair to just lump europe together like that. Nevertheless, those places do oppose building mosques.



The census in 2011 would be very interesting.

I'd love to read more. I'd love to know how the author reached the conclusion that 80% of Europe's Muslims were non-religious. That's seems to be a rather astonishing figure that he never backed up.

Islamic brotherhood expansion lobbyists may have come up with this figure. Or someone whose wife is a muslim.

Such people who marry them often end up turning against their own kin. A great example is the sell-out Croat leader in Bosnia and Herzegovina... he comes from and obscure party and thanks to divisions in the regular croat party he managed to get 40% of the vote... but muslims were allowed to vote for him in certain municipalities. The result is the croatian third of government is filled with muslims instead of croats.

Sell outs are the most dangerous.

 

[ssk]

We don't need your xenophobia here. Seriously, fuck off.

 

[waterloowarrior]

statistics

The fertility rate for Muslim women in Canada is 2.41 compared to 1.57 overall nationally (data from 2000-2001) and 1.41 for non-religious women. Muslim women are the only major religious or non-religious denomination having children at a rate above the replacement level (2.1). Note that it's just major catagories "Jews" "Protestants" etc, it doesn't break it down to "Anglican," "Orthodox Jew" etc.

The prediction for Canada is that the Muslim population will grow from 1.9% of the population in 2001 to 4.1% in 2017 (reference scenario). In the Toronto CMA Muslims will grow from 258,500 (5% of population) to 654,200, about (10% of population). Religion is only asked on the census every 10 years.

In terms of practicing, the above statcan paper has practicing Muslims at ±42%, which is in the middle, similar to Protestants and Jews.

 

[LAz]

We don't need your xenophobia here. Seriously, fuck off.

Look here troll, this is about Europe and European values.

We do not want to be come muslim countries. If that makes me racist well sorry.
Most Europeans are quite happy with the minaret ban. Does that make us xenophobic? Maybe. I don't care. It's the voice of the people.
Look a page or two back, and you can find the strong support that European society has on banning minarets. This is not Canada, so stop imposing your liberal values no European values. It does not mean much to be Canadian, while European societies are much more established, rather than being some sort of melting pot. We are proud that we are not a melting pot/stew.



In other news, related to this, in France...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100115/ap_on_re_eu/eu_france_forbidding_the_veil
France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil




edit:

The fertility rate for Muslim women in Canada is 2.41 compared to 1.57 overall nationally (data from 2000-2001) and 1.41 for non-religious women. Muslim women are the only major religious or non-religious denomination having children at a rate above the replacement level (2.1). Note that it's just major catagories "Jews" "Protestants" etc, it doesn't break it down to "Anglican," "Orthodox Jew" etc.

The prediction for Canada is that the Muslim population will grow from 1.9% of the population in 2001 to 4.1% in 2017 (reference scenario). In the Toronto CMA Muslims will grow from 258,500 (5% of population) to 654,200, about (10% of population). Religion is only asked on the census every 10 years.

In terms of practicing, the above statcan paper has practicing Muslims at ±42%, which is in the middle, similar to Protestants and Jews.

[liberal nut]Hey stop being so racist! People are all the same. And they always were and always will be the same. Difference does not exist, we only imagine it. This must not be an issue. All these numbers are concocted extremism that mean nothing. Everything is a social construct.[/liberal nut]