Subway To Mississauga: Routing

[TheTigerMaster]

I would not take the Regional Transportation Plan very seriously, by the way. From what I understand, there are some fairly appalling inconsistencies between the growth expected in the RPT, and the growth expected by Toronto City Planning. In particular, the RTP projects only 75,000 more jobs downtown by 2041, while City Planning is expecting more than 400,000 additional jobs. Thus far, City Planning seems to have a far better grasp on reality. It concerns me that there is such a disparity in employment projections

 

[innsertnamehere]

The RTP job projection is honestly laughable. The core has added 10,000 jobs annually in the last few years.. the fact that they expect it to add only 75,000 in the next 24 years is hilarious.

I find Metrolinx consistently overplays job growth in the suburban growth centres, while the reality is that the majority of job growth in the GTA over the last few years has been in the downtown. Very little growth has occurred in the growth centres, most suburban employment growth continues in the traditional business park areas.

Thankfully, the infrastructure Metrolinx is actually building is serving the downtown job growth properly, even if their long range planning doesn't seem to care as much.

The whole plan is a mess though. If you look at the actual projects on the list, it's almost entirely BRT projects beyond those already advancing into detailed design. There is almost no serious long range planning on what lines will be needed in the long term.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I would not take the Regional Transportation Plan very seriously, by the way. From what I understand, there are some fairly appalling inconsistencies between the growth expected in the RPT, and the growth expected by Toronto City Planning. In particular, the RTP projects only 75,000 more jobs downtown by 2041, while City Planning is expecting more than 400,000 additional jobs. Thus far, City Planning seems to have a far better grasp on reality. It concerns me that there is such a disparity in employment projections

The RTP job projection is honestly laughable. The core has added 10,000 jobs annually in the last few years.. the fact that they expect it to add only 75,000 in the next 24 years is hilarious.

Yes. 69,000 jobs were added Downtown in the five year period between 2011 and 2016. Contrast this to the mere 75,000 jobs over twenty-four years that the RTP is projecting. I'd love to know how exactly they came up with that estimate.

My concern with the RTP is that it'll be used by politicians to misdirect the prioritization of transit projects. Nonsense like this is how we get the Relief Line West falling off the map.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The RTP job projection is honestly laughable. The core has added 10,000 jobs annually in the last few years.. the fact that they expect it to add only 75,000 in the next 24 years is hilarious.

I find Metrolinx consistently overplays job growth in the suburban growth centres, while the reality is that the majority of job growth in the GTA over the last few years has been in the downtown. Very little growth has occurred in the growth centres, most suburban employment growth continues in the traditional business park areas.

Thankfully, the infrastructure Metrolinx is actually building is serving the downtown job growth properly, even if their long range planning doesn't seem to care as much.

The whole plan is a mess though. If you look at the actual projects on the list, it's almost entirely BRT projects beyond those already advancing into detailed design. There is almost no serious long range planning on what lines will be needed in the long term.

With the amount of large-scale commercial developments in the pipeline, would to be correct to assume that the bulk of the 400,000 jobs expected to be added to Downtown will be materializing in the first half of the 25 year period?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Hard to know. The CIBC development alone will likely house close to 20,000 employees. I expect the rate of 10,000 a year to continue, short of a recession.

 

[treplow]

Don't forget Amazon's 50,000 new jobs

 

[mdrejhon]

It would be fun to compare Metrolinx 2031 RTP and the Metrolinx 2041 RTP.

There are quite a number of differences, some that made it, and some that didn't make it. The political winds that blows, greatly influences this.

I bet in 2027, there will be public consultations for Metrolinx 2051 RTP.

 

[drum118]

In the year of 2121, a great celebration took place when the long plan subway extension to Mississauga Sq One Station open. It was a great day for everyone to ride the new floating air cushion subway train from Sq One all the way to Union Station as a single seat ride.

 

[pman]

With regard to the poll question, how about an answer like “I support allocating our scarce transit dollars to projects that will generate the most quantifiable benefit per dollar of investment, as calculated by a qualified independent consultant, and reviewed by a competent independent auditor.”

 

[44 North]

Well, I didn't expect this to resurface anytime soon.

One of Toronto's draft comments to Metrolinx about the 2041 Regional Transportation Plan is that "the Relief Line West and Bloor-Danforth West Extension are omitted".

It's not a surprise that the Relief Line West (Osgoode station to Bloor subway) is mentioned - though it is hidden in the draft RTP as a post-2041 project in Appendix 3E on page A-29.

However, it's the first mention I've heard of the Bloor-Danforth West Extension since 2013. And there's never been much discussion as far as I know.

I wonder what brought this on. It surfaced on Thursday in Attachment 5 of the SmartTrack Project Update and Next Steps for the November 28, 2017 Executive Committee meeting.

As a refresher, here is a bit of one of the 2013 figures which showed the Line 2 extension into Mississauga (project S) following Bloor Street. (D is the Dundas BRT - which corresponds to Metrolinx's draft RTP project 34 from Kipling to Bronte). This if from the Feeling Congested studies - though I don't recall it being anything more than a line on a map.

Thanks for posting this Attachment 5 report. It's a refreshing read and certainly puts a different perspective on Mlinx's draft RTP. Regarding your last point, a Line 2 West extn was actually a bit more than a line on a map in Feeling Congested. Well, not by much, but in the Toolkit report from that FC link you can see the scorecard of different projects' merits. Line 2 West scored Low, but other projects scored worse and are in Metrolinx's RTP - most notably Sheppard West extn (Very Low). So if they're including that to be in place by 2041 then they better update and include both a Relief Line West and Line 2 West, among some of the other things listed in Toronto's response.

 

[adrianaliu]

I just dont see the point of discussing these extensions of line 2 (scarborough and mississauga) when most of us know this isnt gonna happen soon and it shouldnt happen soon beyond cloverdale. milton RER and dundas brt would serve the city and halton region better

 

[Dan416]

I just dont see the point of discussing these extensions of line 2 (scarborough and mississauga) when most of us know this isnt gonna happen soon and it shouldnt happen soon beyond cloverdale. milton RER and dundas brt would serve the city and halton region better

You realize how much progress there is on the Milton RER front right? Zero. It's dead last in that race.

 

[crs1026]

How does the plan to intensify the Sherway area connect to preservation of employment lands? What will happen to all the grungy but necessary industry in the Sherway area? Is it only the big-box zone that is being eyed for population growth, or the whole area along North Queen and Shorncliffe?
- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

You realize how much progress there is on the Milton RER front right? Zero. It's dead last in that race.

This is a really interesting point.

I have long held that there is no need for the subway to extend into Mississauga.....but at some point you have to ask if the cost (in dollars and time) of getting meaningful regional rail service to the centre of Mississauga is going to be so high.....perhaps subway becomes a more viable/palatable option.

I would say the same thing about the KW line for Brampton (although not subway but maybe an ICTS type system along queen to Line 2) except that the line dynamics are different. On the KW line the impetus seems to be to serve Kitchener better and if that happens to improve things for Brampton that is fine...but by no means spend money on Brampton if it does not get to the goal of serving Kitchener. On the Milton line the focus seems to be (appropriately) on serving Mississauga and if ReR is not coming soon (ever?) then it may be time to consider options.

 

[cbrown2009]

Wasn’t there a plan in place with a budget, to at least get 2 dedicated tracks down on the Milton Line to increase Go service to at least hourly all day? Price tag in the neighbourhood of $2-2.5 billion (please correct me if I’m wrong).
On the other hand, any subway that gets anywhere near Square One has me guessing $8 billion more or less for starters. That, and the fact the Milton Line needs more service anyway has me thinking Milton Line expansion makes way more sense than a new subway from scratch. Add in a BRT on Dundas for more local service and the Hurontario LRT connects to MCC... Sounds like a fairly robust system to me.