Suburban house split up into 18 bedrooms

[paraone]

You probably should get busted for peeping. These people live at the very bottom of the social ladder and have very little privacy as it is. What could you possibly get out of this except violating other people's rights and maybe satisfying a voyeuristic Rear Window fetish?

first read the above posts, I need proof that it has been divided into an illegal rooming house, I can't get inside so what do you suggest?

and what could I get out of this?

hmmm let me see.... how about not having my home burned down and my wife and infant child killed cuz some dickhead knocked over a space heater and set the drywall on fire killng everyone inside while spreding the fire to the surrounding row houses at 4am. Been through one house fire in my life and I think thats one more than anyone should ever have to go through.

Lets also see.... hmmmmm..... how about not having to deal with the heaps of trash that they leave in the fire access behind our row, bringing down my property value and feeding the local rat population......

and how about not having transient tenants smoking crack in front of the kids across the street! no joke we have a community garden and one of the guys living in there was sitting there smoking rocks with 5 kids playing in the snow about 30 feet away. Until he was chased away by a pissed off mother.


if you want to "protect" them so bad, come on by load em in a car and let them live on your street. I have no problem living amongst the poor, I don't exactly live in yuppie-ville, but I will not tolerate my families well being and our quality of life being compromised so some asshole f*ck can cram a bunch of people into a tiny little house.

 

[Hipster Duck]

hmmm let me see.... how about not having my home burned down and my wife and infant child killed cuz some dickhead knocked over a space heater and set the drywall on fire killng everyone inside while spreding the fire to the surrounding row houses at 4am.

That is a bit over-the-top.

Lets also see.... hmmmmm..... how about not having to deal with the heaps of trash that they leave in the fire access behind our row, bringing down my property value and feeding the local rat population......

They're probably bringing the property value down about as much as the graffiti artists you routinely defend.

and how about not having transient tenants smoking crack in front of the kids across the street! no joke we have a community garden and one of the guys living in there was sitting there smoking rocks with 5 kids playing in the snow about 30 feet away.

That's unfortunate, but it's probably better that your kids see what drugs do to people firsthand by staring into the vacant and scary eyes of a malnourished junkie, rather than at a teenage party when the friends they respect and admire foist it onto them.

if you want to "protect" them so bad, come on by load em in a car and let them live on your street. I have no problem living amongst the poor, I don't exactly live in yuppie-ville, but I will not tolerate my families well being and our quality of life being compromised so some asshole f*ck can cram a bunch of people into a tiny little house.

Nowhere in my post do I say that I'm out there to protect them. I just question the effectiveness (and legality) of spying on your neighbours with a telephoto lens. The tenants of the rooming house may be an eyesore and ill-behaved, but at least they're not unscrupulous.

 

[paraone]

That is a bit over-the-top.

there was an exterminator called to the address about a month ago, as he was leaving I was taking trash outside and started to ask him what was going on in there, thats when he told me about the 3 rooms split into about 8 or so, with extension cords strung every where for lighting and space heaters in each "closet" I guess they built over most of the heating ducts.
So how is that a bit over the top fearing that these idiots will one day kick over a space heater or over load a cheap ass extention cord and set the house a blaze?

They're probably bringing the property value down about as much as the graffiti artists you routinely defend.

Last time I checked the area with the most graffiti was around Queen/spadina, you telling me it's effected the property value?? hardly, either way that has nothing to do with this situation.
Rats breed like crazy and spread disease, having a steady food source compounds the problem. I also don't have to clean up garbage left behind by graffiti writers

That's unfortunate, but it's probably better that your kids see what drugs do to people firsthand by staring into the vacant and scary eyes of a malnourished junkie, rather than at a teenage party when the friends they respect and admire foist it onto them.

now how's being over the top?? can I come to your house and get wasted in front of your kids? and I would almost agree with you if these kids weren't 4-7 years old.

Nowhere in my post do I say that I'm out there to protect them. I just question the effectiveness (and legality) of spying on your neighbours with a telephoto lens. The tenants of the rooming house may be an eyesore and ill-behaved, but at least they're not unscrupulous.

First you think a person that smokes rock on the street in front of kids is an upstanding citizen?
Second you really believe I would climb the houses across the street to photograph through the windows? C'mon dude I have better things to do, like sit here arguing with you on an internet board.
Either way it's an illegal rooming house that will eventually become another statistic, too bad someone will have to be injured before anyone can do anything about it.

 

[junctionist]

Do you question the police when they do it?

I would, and there has to be some legal way of finding the necessary proof.

 

[Hipster Duck]

First you think a person that smokes rock on the street in front of kids is an upstanding citizen?

First, I did not say that.

Second you really believe I would climb the houses across the street to photograph through the windows?

Second, I did not suggest that, either. It doesn't matter whether you risk life and limb to take pictures of them or whether you just set up a tripod and film them while you're away at work. It's still an invasion of privacy.

I also don't have to clean up garbage left behind by graffiti writers

No, but property owners have to paint over their walls at their own expense.

there was an exterminator called to the address about a month ago, as he was leaving I was taking trash outside and started to ask him what was going on in there, thats when he told me about the 3 rooms split into about 8 or so, with extension cords strung every where for lighting and space heaters in each "closet" I guess they built over most of the heating ducts...Either way it's an illegal rooming house that will eventually become another statistic, too bad someone will have to be injured before anyone can do anything about it.

Regardless of what an exterminator tells you (he should really have kept his mouth shut, for professional reasons), you should not have pressed him for details. With respect, paraone, but I get a feeling that you don't respect property rights of people other than yourself. Who are you to snoop around and find out 'what's going on in there'? Why would you deliberately set up a camera to spy on your neighbours?


---

In other words, you didn't have a good response, so you threw in a strawman.

He mentioned that - based on his perception - the heaps of garbage are unsightly, provoked and lower his property value. He's also defended graffiti tagging in other posts and graffiti also is considered by some to be a visual eyesore that lowers property values. On this forum, everything you say can be on record to be used in arguments in other threads. You have to be consistent: if you argue for property rights, you can't defend graffiti tagging and then turn around in another thread and say that the heaps of garbage left behind on other people's property intrinsically lowers your own property value.

So, it's better to have your kids play with dirty needles....because their teenage friends are going to be much harder on them?

You and paraone seem to fall into the same argumentative traps where you appeal to melodrama to effectively put words into my mouth. Did I say anything about kids playing with dirty needles?

Do you question the police when they do it?

I am not a big fan of police surveillance videos, although the police are there to enforce the law. As long as they do not corrupt that position, they have the authority to do something that private citizens like paraone have no right to do. There is a difference between justice and vigilante justice.

 

[wyliepoon]

My bedroom window (North Scarborough) directly faces a second-floor kitchen in what I'm pretty sure is a boarding house. When I settle in for the night I usually see people cooking and/or doing their laundry from the window.

I think boarding houses (especially illegal ones) are terrible ways to create density in the city. The occupants in them share the same city services with people in non-boarding houses, but city services are planned without these extra residents in mind. I have a feeling that one of the reasons why the McCowan bus has gotten increasingly overcrowded over the last few years has something to do with boarding houses.

 

[adma]

And you never know what goes on in those boarding houses (Warning: NSFW)

 

[Hipster Duck]

You're right, my apologies.

Playing with dirty needles is bad, playing 10 feet in front of someone smoking crack is OK.

Seems this could be thrown right back in your face :

"You and paraone seem to fall into the same argumentative traps where you appeal to melodrama to effectively put words into my mouth."

Uh, I don't think it could be thrown in my face because I'm not putting words in your mouth and I'm not blowing your arguments out of proportion to move my own ahead.

You'd make a great politician...you cannot, or will not, answer a simple question....which speaks volumes in itself.

Your question was answered: I don't like police surveillance, but I respect that they have the authority to do so. Private citizens do not and should not.

 

[paraone]

this thread is getting ridiculous

I didn't, nor do I plan to ever set up a camera to spy on my neighbours, it was an off the cuff remark, so relax.
Second I never once defended the act of vandalism, I have defended the artistic aspect of graffiti as an art form, but never have I defended tagging on someone elses property. Search the threads, please.

As a home owner, I do have the right to know if my neighbours are creating an unsafe environment and risking not only their lives but my own, I have the right to use whatever legal avenues are available to me, ie; licensing board and municipal standards, or asking an exterminator,
"hey man, so whats the deal in there? Seems like there are 20 people living in there"
If he feels the need to be a blabber mouth, I'll let him, even though I agree with you, he should have kept his mouth shut, but he didn't. I have the right to ask anyone any questions I please, it's not my problem he violated his clients privacy.

 

[species5618w]

Where did the tenants go?

Are they living on the street? Or simply moved to another rooming housing? The politicans can condemn this all they want. In the end, the root of the problem is that we do not have cheap housing in Toronto. Probably because high taxes and unnecessary regulations. Until that's solved, these kind of practices will continue.

Also, I am surprised how little people value privacy and the right of ownership. After all, it is a private property. Doesn't it scare people that the government can tell us what we can or cannot do in our own home? Safety concern is one thing, imposing government's will in private properties in the name of greater goods is just a very slippery slope.

 

[ShonTron]

I agree with your first point. Part of the problem is the lack of affordable housing, and the resistance to legalizing basement apartments. But it isn't high taxes, its failures to spend to create more affordable housing as well as find more innovative and local solutions.

The second part I take issue with. Government should have the right to regulate what you do with your property - this is the basis for zoning and site applications. Illegal rooming houses are often firetraps and they affect the safety of the public. They are also often unhealthy.

But as long as you follow criminal laws and planning regulations and by-laws, the government doesn't care what you do in your home.

 

[Jarrek]

The second part I take issue with. Government should have the right to regulate what you do with your property - this is the basis for zoning and site applications. Illegal rooming houses are often firetraps and they affect the safety of the public. They are also often unhealthy.

Bang on. If your house is unsafe to live in, the Government should have every right to step in and take appropriate actions.

 

[ed jones]

or just do what I did.....buy the place, kick their asses out, renovate and sell it....no fuss, no muss, and pretty damn effective if I do say so.

It's not like a real estate agent can put a cap rate on the evaluation!

 

[species5618w]

Bang on. If your house is unsafe to live in, the Government should have every right to step in and take appropriate actions.

The problem is that it's not about safety. Would the government back off if the house had the proper electric works and fire alarms? Somehow, I doubt it. I also don't see how would it be safer to house 18 people from the same family, which is not uncommon in certain culture.

 

[species5618w]

I agree with your first point. Part of the problem is the lack of affordable housing, and the resistance to legalizing basement apartments. But it isn't high taxes, its failures to spend to create more affordable housing as well as find more innovative and local solutions.

The second part I take issue with. Government should have the right to regulate what you do with your property - this is the basis for zoning and site applications. Illegal rooming houses are often firetraps and they affect the safety of the public. They are also often unhealthy.

But as long as you follow criminal laws and planning regulations and by-laws, the government doesn't care what you do in your home.

Unfortunately, I am not sure affordable housing is the right way to go. The government simply can not do that (or anything else) efficiently. Lowering taxes on apartment buildings and tolerating these 18 bedroom houses as long as they are safe would be a lot more cost effective.

As for by-laws, I am afraid that many of them are made solely for political gains. That's exactly why they are so hard to enforce. Rooming houses exists for a reason, and they will continue to exist as long as the underline problem is not fixed.