AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Where's it going? I can't think of any corners that are vacant (Starbucks prefers to be on a corner).
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Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Poverty is shifting from the downtown to the suburbs as a result of gentrification and the property boom, so the revival of fortunes in one area is balanced by the decline in fortunes of another - nothing to glory in really.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
"Poverty is shifting from the downtown to the suburbs as a result of gentrification and the property boom, so the revival of fortunes in one area is balanced by the decline in fortunes of another - nothing to glory in really."
You may be correct on a macro societal level but on the ground people from all income levels cheer the removal of places of residence and business where annoying criminal activity flurish.
Real people want their neighbourhoods to improve. The vast majority of those who live in poverty would like nothing better than to not continue living in poverty. So while we must try to stem neighbourhood decline and attempt to reduce poverty, I don't see the logic in being hostile or complacent toward neighbourhood improvement in the defence of those with low income.
Now from a position of privileged we may argue the merits of how much of an improvement a Starbucks really provides (I think I have only entered one once in my life) but there are countless low income communities that can only dream of a day when Starbucks would consider opening a franchise in their area.
You may be correct on a macro societal level but on the ground people from all income levels cheer the removal of places of residence and business where annoying criminal activity flurish.
Real people want their neighbourhoods to improve. The vast majority of those who live in poverty would like nothing better than to not continue living in poverty. So while we must try to stem neighbourhood decline and attempt to reduce poverty, I don't see the logic in being hostile or complacent toward neighbourhood improvement in the defence of those with low income.
Now from a position of privileged we may argue the merits of how much of an improvement a Starbucks really provides (I think I have only entered one once in my life) but there are countless low income communities that can only dream of a day when Starbucks would consider opening a franchise in their area.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
The bulk of Toronto's poverty has been in the inner suburbs for quite a while now. Starbucks really is a good harbinger of upward mobility and urbanity, though.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Does this mean that the house Theirry Despont did up for The Baron Black of Crossharbour will be pulled down upon the good Baron's conviction? That seems excessive.
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artgeek
Guest
The new Star of Downtown development is on the corner of Wellesley and Ontario, and their hoarding is advertising retail space. Could be there or the development further west, at Wellesley and Homewood.
I don't think Starbucks would put a store on that stretch of Parliament - the baristas at Jet Fuel would humiliate them daily with cruel, detached irony (and make fun of their aprons).
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
If the Jet Fuel wage slaves have so little to do it doesn't bode well for their future employment.
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artgeek
Guest
Nah, I think they'll be OK - JF caters to a different audience, and they've managed to coexist so far with the new Tim Hortons at Parliament and Winchester.
JF, Timmie's and Starbucks are all different wavelengths on the cool spectrum!
Dammit now I need a coffee.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
Really - I suppose in the same way that people who work at McDonalds, Harvey's and Wendy's percieve variations in their own coolness. Variations that are invisible to the general public regardless of whether it's coffee or hamburger beeing sold.
BUGEYEDBRIT
Active Member
Starbucks would do well at the old Javaville corner site, its a bit big(probably what killed Javaville), but they can at least afford it.....unless it really is coming into the star of dowtown building, but I think thats unlikely.
urbandreamer
recession proof
how many years before a starbucks enters kensington market? I'm predicting sometime before 1 July 2013. Then there's spadina/dundas area: starbucks there too says I (i hate their coffee btw.) Aroma Coffee in K-market would be fitting. What's the difference between starbuck's and Ideal Coffee? Not much says I--a few pennies perhaps?
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Erik T
Guest
I don't know about that Javaville location- Lettieri tried it a while back, and I think 2 (at least 1) other coffeee/ light food establishment has come and gone from that spot. One would think it's a good location (corner, southern exposure/ good light, lots of people walking by) but I've been passing that corner regularly since 1994, and it seems like a surprisingly unlucky spot.
It reminds me of a Toronto Life feature, maybe from a decade ago already, describing about 10 unlikely real-estate 'dogs' in the downtown core- actually, I'd be curious to re-read that article and compare their locations to what is happening with those properties today. To conclude on a more optimistic note, for instance, there is a coffee shop on Harbord around Grace (north east corner) which looks decent and seems to have regular customers, even though that strip never had much pedestrian traffic.
It reminds me of a Toronto Life feature, maybe from a decade ago already, describing about 10 unlikely real-estate 'dogs' in the downtown core- actually, I'd be curious to re-read that article and compare their locations to what is happening with those properties today. To conclude on a more optimistic note, for instance, there is a coffee shop on Harbord around Grace (north east corner) which looks decent and seems to have regular customers, even though that strip never had much pedestrian traffic.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I think the best approach for the Javaville location would be the split the lot or store front, with half being a Starbucks, the other being something else.
I used to go to Javaville before I moved out to Fredericton in summer 2004 and was always struck by the slow, poor and unfriendly service and besheviled of the staff, plus the overly loud "off-target-customer" music.
I used to go to Javaville before I moved out to Fredericton in summer 2004 and was always struck by the slow, poor and unfriendly service and besheviled of the staff, plus the overly loud "off-target-customer" music.
jozl
Active Member
I've lived in Cabbagetown since 1975. I've seen countless businesses come and go at the north east corner of Carlton and Parliament. It seems like an ideal location but it's been the kiss of death for many businesses. If Starbucks is locating there it's because they've done their homework. The rebuilding of Regent Park is probably the reason for renewed optimism for the commercial health of Parliament Street. I hope Starbucks is correct.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I think the closure of the Cabbagetown Restaurant will help gentrify Parliament south of Carleton, provided that the new business there is successful and upmarket.
Once Regent Park begins bringing in hundreds of new middle class and monied homeowners, you'll begin to see businesses targetted towards that market, such as Starbucks making a quick move to lock into leases in the available spots. We saw the same when the Greenwood Racetrack was replaced with housing, where dirty shops on the northside of Queen between Woodbine and Coxwell have now been replaced with trendy and inviting shops and businesses.
I think a bank would do well to replace the Cabbagetown restaurant. I know Scotiabank vacated a few years back, but those with money to save are coming to town. Of course, CIBC has threatened to leave its location a few times, so perhaps the area can't yet support another bank.
You must have seen some major changes in the area since 1975. When I moved to Canada in 1976 from Britain, my parents wouldn't have dreamed of moving into the area for its rough reputation, but now we see middle class families all over the area.
Once Regent Park begins bringing in hundreds of new middle class and monied homeowners, you'll begin to see businesses targetted towards that market, such as Starbucks making a quick move to lock into leases in the available spots. We saw the same when the Greenwood Racetrack was replaced with housing, where dirty shops on the northside of Queen between Woodbine and Coxwell have now been replaced with trendy and inviting shops and businesses.
I think a bank would do well to replace the Cabbagetown restaurant. I know Scotiabank vacated a few years back, but those with money to save are coming to town. Of course, CIBC has threatened to leave its location a few times, so perhaps the area can't yet support another bank.
You must have seen some major changes in the area since 1975. When I moved to Canada in 1976 from Britain, my parents wouldn't have dreamed of moving into the area for its rough reputation, but now we see middle class families all over the area.