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Star - Nurture T.O.'s Creativity, Report Urges

Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

...nor will the feint of the powdered and perfumed aesthete, as long as we have the whimsical poetic musings of Babel.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

tudararms:

Out of curosity, have you read the content of the actual report and what they propose? They aren't exactly "nebulous policies" by any means.

AoD
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

Yes I have Aod, but I would prefer not to be bated into the trap of earnestly explaining my position, only to be insulted. I'll respectfully disagree, and will decline.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

turdarms:

That just means the logic of your arguments requires some further thought.

AoD
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

keep your pointless pseudo-omniscient observations to yourself, please.

I think you are the one being insulting.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

"If you think the arts flourish only organically you really don't know much about the arts."

Lets not throw stones Urbanboyo.


"That just means the logic of your arguments requires some further thought."

No, it denotes a lack of respectful or meaningful debate. To disagree with somebody is one thing, to imply that their argument is without logic because you disagree is neither objective nor respectful. Shame.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

tudarams makes an impassioned plea for the further impoverishment of artists ( who are already one of the lowest paid groups in society ) based on a quaint and outmoded nineteenth century romantic view of the role of the artist within society.

Her glib comment, "The cave painters at Lascaux did not need a panel of bureaucrats to encourage them to paint." is meaningless without knowledge of how artists were treated 20,000 years ago. For all we know artists may have been highly regarded, and held higher positions within their culture, than artists are within ours today. God help them if some Prehistoric Tudararms had been running their tribe!

By using the fact that "The Arts have flourished within the most impoverished, oppressive and even dangerous times" to justify the idea that, "When you remove the 'struggle' from the Arts you remove a little of the spirit, the edge and the need" and claiming that art that is created in any other way is, "out of touch with and sheltered from the very society it seeks to be relevant to" Sunday painter and suburban housewife tudararms shows just how out of touch she really is.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

tudararms:

No, it denotes a lack of respectful or meaningful debate. To disagree with somebody is one thing, to imply that their argument is without logic because you disagree is neither objective nor respectful. Shame.

Excuse me, I am quite ready to show you exactly how the report contains specific elements that aren't "nebulous" by any stretch of the imagination, only to be countered by being called "baiting".

In fact, the report suggested a lot of bread-and-butter policies that aren't at all different from some of your points. So geez, give the rest of us some credit.

AoD
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

Instead of writing reports that preach to the converted that ultimately achieve nothing, it would be far more beneficial to lower capital taxes to unleash entrepreneurial creativity our society is capable of.

Both the provincial and federal governments will have phased out the capital tax by the end of the decade.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

"tudarams makes an impassioned plea for the further impoverishment of artists ( who are already one of the lowest paid groups in society ) based on a quaint and outmoded nineteenth century romantic view of the role of the artist within society."

Creative extrapolation Babel, but no. I make an impassioned plea for effective funding policies. Successful artists, meaning relevant ones, often do quite well for themselves, by the way. Apparantly you feel taxpayers should support any failed hack who applies for money?

"Her glib comment, "The cave painters at Lascaux did not need a panel of bureaucrats to encourage them to paint." is meaningless without knowledge of how artists were treated 20,000 years ago. For all we know artists may have been highly regarded, and held higher positions within their culture, than artists are within ours today. God help them if some Prehistoric Tudararms had been running their tribe!"

It must be insufferable for Babel to dwell among us philistines, in a culture that so miserably persecutes the lowly artist, indeed! I guess Babel's own "quaint and outmoded nineteenth century romantic view of the role of the artist within society" is somehow more acceptable.


"By using the fact that "The Arts have flourished within the most impoverished, oppressive and even dangerous times" to justify the idea that, "When you remove the 'struggle' from the Arts you remove a little of the spirit, the edge and the need" and claiming that art that is created in any other way is, "out of touch with and sheltered from the very society it seeks to be relevant to"

You're welcome to disagree. I have put forth an argument. I have yet to hear yours.


"Sunday painter and suburban housewife tudararms shows just how out of touch she really is."

How typical.

Though I would be proud to be a woman, you have somehow made an enormous assumption about my gender. I guess, being as 'big city' wise and in touch with the world you are you feel you know my gender?
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

"Excuse me, I am quite ready to show you exactly how the report contains specific elements that aren't "nebulous" by any stretch of the imagination, only to be countered by being called "baiting".

Please do, Aod. That would be far more constructive than simply insulting my arguments as illogical.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

Tudararms:

Here is one series of suggestions from the report:

1. Expand Creative Programming for Youth
All youth in Toronto, regardless of where they live, should have access to free, high-quality education and training in creative activities such as visual arts, music, theatre, dance, and media. Expanding creative programs of this sort will complement recent public investments in major cultural institutions by investing in the creative capacity of future artists and creative workers.

This goal can be accomplished in a variety of ways. Here are just two ideas:

— ‘Doors Open’ visits for schools – The popular ‘Doors Open Toronto’ program27 could be expanded so school children can visit culturally significant buildings during the school week. This program would expose young people to inspiring creative spaces and great architecture.

— Free museums and art galleries for under- 20’s – Once again, barriers to creative exposure could be removed by giving young people from all neighbourhoods and income levels free access to public museums and art galleries.

2. Transform Local Community Centres into Creative Community Hubs
Toronto has many thriving community centres that can and should be transformed into neighbourhood hubs. Creative Community Hubs would combine cultural/creative development programs with the economic revitalization of an at-risk neighbourhood by providing enabling financial support and services. This approach capitalizes on existing organizations and knowledge of local issues and conditions, allowing programs to be developed and adapted to each neighbourhood’s specific needs and creative talent – whether in the central city or more suburban locations. Pilot projects could be carried out in a few neighbourhoods to start, both downtown and in Toronto’s suburbs.

The Point Community Development Corporation in New York City is an effective example of this type of creative community programming linked to local economic development. The Point uses the creative heritage of the South Bronx (a neighbourhood better known for poverty, crime, poor schools and inadequate housing) to catalyze community development by encouraging youth to cultivate their artistic and entrepreneurial capabilities. The Point recognizes the talent and aspirations of local residents as the area’s greatest assets and offers programs to develop that talent in music, dance, photography, theatre, fashion and other disciplines. Enterprise and community development activities are connected to the artistic programs while, at the same time, small businesses and non-profit organizations are incubated. In the process, the Point promotes projects that address locally relevant concerns such as transportation, pollution, open space and environmental stewardship.28

Another example of successful leveraging of local resources in this manner can be found in Creative London’s Hub Strategy, working in areas of London with high concentrations of creative businesses. In each neighbourhood, a lead organization is designated as a focal point through which further assistance to cultural industries and creative activities is channelled to continue addressing local needs. Hubs differ in their structure depending on local circumstances, but can act as incubators for creative businesses, clearinghouses of information on locally available property, developers of long-term plans for the local creative sector and promoters of local creative work.29 In many neighbourhoods, Creative London is using this approach to address the needs of economically and socially disadvantaged communities. In this way, they are pursuing an economic development strategy that is both creativity-based and socially inclusive.

3. Fund Arts and Creativity in Public Education
Experience in California (as described in the sidebar on Cultural Initiatives Silicon Valley) confirms that long-term neglect of arts education in public schools weakens a city’s attractiveness to highly educated workers with school-age children. Toronto cannot afford to take this risk at a time when its economic future depends on its ability to generate, attract and retain a talented workforce.

As long as funding of arts and creativity remains unstable and spatially uneven within the public school system, Toronto’s youth are being short-changed. We are giving them less of an education than they deserve and limiting their ability to succeed, as well as the ability of the region to reap the social and economic benefits of their education.

While governments are prepared to acknowledge the importance of arts programming, they are not always prepared to fund it. Stronger advocacy on the part of parents, communities and educators is essential to ensure that governments make arts programming a priority in public education.

This is largely but not solely an appeal to governments. Private sector partners who are prepared to fund arts programs in schools must be encouraged to step up to the plate and help the artists and creative workforce of tomorrow – people, in fact, they may some day be employing – receive a full and well-rounded education that includes the arts.

And here are some of your suggestions:

directing money for the funding of supplies to community centres or the funding of performance/atelier space, or investments in and imrovements to venues, or organizing of events for the exposure of artists, and so on

Aren't they remarkably concrete and similar in many ways, and hardly nebulous?

AoD
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

tudararms: Just as you choose to see me as a "powdered and perfumed aesthete" with "whimsical poetic musings", so do I - alighting on your claim, if I recall, to have a hubby who travels - see you as a bored, bonbon-swallowing suburban matron with a subscription to "Toronto Life" and time on her hands.

The arts funding policies that you advocate have to be seen within the context of your antiquated view of the subservient place within society that is reserved for artists.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

Alvin: Thanks for posting that part of the report.

Surely no sane person could object to investing public resources sensibly to bring young people in our educational system closer to the arts in such a broadly based and non-elitist manner?

Even the Lascaux cave painters were probably subsidized to some degree, through being granted time away from their hunter-gatherer duties in order to produce their powerful art.
 
Re: Re:Star - Nurture T.O's Creativity, Report

AoD - Excellent post, thank you. Give me some time to reply in a meaningful way to your contribution here.


Babel -

"Surely no sane person could object to investing public resources sensibly to bring young people in our educational system closer to the arts in such a broadly based and non-elitist manner?"

"Just as you choose to see me as a "powdered and perfumed aesthete" with "whimsical poetic musings", so do I - alighting on your claim, if I recall, to have a hubby who travels - see you as a bored, bonbon-swallowing suburban matron with a subscription to "Toronto Life" and time on her hands."


Do you have a problem with the suburbs?...or 'housewives'?...or 'matrons' now?? I mean, that's a lot of people you raise yourself above from so cavalierly. Personally, I'm offended on behalf of all the people you have so casually insulted, and have to seriously question the sincerity of the 'broadly based and non-elitist' perspective you claim to advocate.

Just for the record, your heterosexist assumptions are incorrect. Just because I have a 'hubby who travels' does not mean I am a woman. "Big city" enlightenment, indeed.
 

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